VW Gasser Garage Tar Babe Resto Update

[grillos racing]

Hello Russell, we're very pleased to know that Tar babe is in good hands, maybe i could help with the restoration, when we delivered the car the decklid was included, why are you looking for a new one??, i duplicated some of the parts, ive got decklids that are duplicated from the original one (fiberglass ones, like the original), do you need this part??

www.grillosracing.com.mx

Mario Gamboa

[Russell]

Mario

Pleased that Tar Babe is in good hands ? Pity you didnt feel like that when the deal was made ?

Im looking for a new one as i want to restore the car correctly. The deck lid is broken and from what we can see its not the original empi one that was fitted and the decklid was also installed by a different means and I intend to put this back to the way it was.

Do you still have the original steel doors and steel hood and the drivers seat ?

I have also been told you may have the gold leaf from the original supplier, if so would you let me know, please ?

I was also been told that you have the original engine in your street car brasilia ? I thought that for the extra money the engine was also being delivered, not 2 pistons, 1 barrel, a dyno stand with an empi badge stuck on and a broken mag !

[Zach Gomulka]

No they didn't. It's chopped the same way as my old Goss chop-top and my Flashback race car. I'll try and explain how it's done when I get home in a few days.

Please do! Because those welds I can see from the inside of the C pillar beg to differ

[Fastbrit]

Hello Russell, we're very pleased to know that Tar babe is in good hands, maybe i could help with the restoration, when we delivered the car the decklid was included, why are you looking for a new one??, i duplicated some of the parts, ive got decklids that are duplicated from the original one (fiberglass ones, like the original), do you need this part??

www.grillosracing.com.mx

Mario Gamboa

Hmmm, having been part of the tear down...  Do you also have the original fenders, hood, doors, deck lid, seat, correct floorpan, steering wheel, gauges etc etc... The decklid is definitely not correct. I'm with Ron Fleming and Mike Hunsaker today...

[Bruce]

Hmmm, having been part of the tear down...  Do you also have the original fenders, hood, doors, deck lid, seat, correct floorpan, steering wheel, gauges etc etc... The decklid is definitely not correct. I'm with Ron Fleming and Mike Hunsaker today...

The original doors are long gone, long before Mario found the car.  As well as all the original steel removeable panels.
I am curious, what makes you think the floor pan is not original?  When I checked the car, I noticed one roll bar tube was welded onto the tunnel right at the location of the original VIN, completely obliterating it.  You can still see the stump of this tube in the pic you posted.

[Russell]

Bruce, Its a latter floor pan and a 61 shell, this we can tell by the body id plate which is still intact and we can date the chassis by the heater controls levers ? Maybe this was the way it was built but we arent convinced.... when the fuel tank was mounted at the front it was in the centre of the fuel tank area, the only way this would fit was if the frame head had been modified, which its not ? Also the front bulhead is cut away to fit the hydraulic pedal cluster that was used, which would have meant removing the vw pedal assembly, this looks likes its been there since day 1. And the every bolt between thw chassi and the body came out no problem and the only area with a problem was where the floor pan and body were welded together when the addional roll cage had been installed !!! excellent work  not.

Bruce, Did you also see the revised roll cage and the way it had been installed (butchered) into the car, and also the addional cuts in the rear panneling for the extra supports.....

Keith im with you thanks.

Mario, Why did you copy the parts ? and which parts were they ?

[jick]

well done and good luck Russell....

looks like you're gonna be very busy.......

[Black Sheep]

If you get really stuck for a lid Russell , let me know . Ive got a man that can do miracles with GRP and we will be able to make a pretty authentic replica of the lid using what you have as a starting point

[Georg/DFL]

Congratulation Russell!
It's such good news that you got Tar Babe! Really can't wait to see it the first time for real!
Good luck with the restauration and let me know if I can help finding parts for the project!
Cheers,

Georg

[.]

Fuel tank was in the rear.
Decklid had the Empi logo grund off and was modified for Hinges.

[simon uk]

awesome stuff, I cant wait to see it! I would love to see a list of any rare bits needed, so that we can either sell/ donate, or keep an eye out for any bits that are needed.

Russell is the man!

Si.

[Diederick/DVK]

holy meck!
what an awesome butt

but only one T-bar? just for towing purposes or what?

[Black Sheep]

Push start bar i think 

[Fastbrit]

Fuel tank was in the rear.
Decklid had the Empi logo grund off and was modified for Hinges.

No, the gas tank was only at the rear for a short time and then moved to the front. Talked about this with Ron and Mike Hunsaker last night. The framehead was notched to clear the fitting for the gas line - more proof that the chassis has been changed. In the photo you show of the trunk area, the gas cap can be seen poking through the aluminum panel by the bulkhead.This is confirmed by Ron and Mike, too.

Russell, have confirmation of a number of other details, too... Also I am bringing home the original Jere Alhadeff interior photos AND the negatives of his colour photo shoot of the car. It gets better... 

[Bruce]

Bruce, Did you also see the revised roll cage and the way it had been installed (butchered) into the car, and also the addional cuts in the rear panneling for the extra supports.....

Ya.  When I first saw the car, you could see the holes in the original Al panels where the original roll cage was.

I have seen pics taken as late as 1978 with the original black paint.  Mario found the car in the mid 90s.  By that time, all the "modifications" had been done.

[larry mck]

Wow, such great detective work guys! Those pictures from the original shoot should really tell the true story. I hope you can put them together so we all can see them at some time. As with all race cars things progress and changes are made. When restoring it you need to pick a point in time and restore it to that. I would say that when the photos were taken for Hot VWs would be the best, as that is when it was most seen and remembered, also the most documented. Russell you are so lucky to have so many friends(Keith, Ron, etc.) that want to help get this car restored. It is such a great piece of VW history and to bring it back for all to see is so important. Good Luck! 

[Mags]

Congratulation Russel,
Its was good news from you.
See you Vowo show.

Mags
See pm

[WCB Hitler's Hot Rod]

Russell,
I might have an ORIGINAL fiberglass EMPI decklid from that era. I will check to see if I do. Glad YOU were able to buy the car. Amazing when I tried the owner apparently couldn't speak a word of English? After reading this post it doesn't sound like theirs not much of the original car left;but the body.
Steve N.

[Ivan]

Sounds like it's had a few alterations.  Not ! To put things into perspective, think about the amount of racing cars, in the circuit racing world for example, which have been smashed and rebuilt with a new body, chassis and had more than one engine and are still sold as the genuine thing with racing provenance.

Some of those cars are a bit like the builder's shovel which he has had for 30 years and has had 25 heads and 15 handles, but is still the same old shovel...

I heard a story about a '73 911 RS which had been re-shelled when virtually new and the old shell was used to make another 911 RS - so there were two cars out there which were basically the same 911RS - the question is which was actually original? Try neither! But then neither one of the owners would agree with you, I'm sure. And then there's the reconstructions such as the Auto-Union racers made from more new parts than originals by Crossthwaite and Gardener. Are they still Auto Unions? Depends on your perspective.


It sounds as though the most important part of Tar Babe is there, and hopefully the price wasn't so high that you feel duped. Although it sounds like you already feel you were getting more than you got - as you've mentioned the engine you didn't get.
 

[Russell]

Ivan

The price was fair as far as i was concerned but when it was increased after the deposit was sent and the deal agreed I was rather pissed off !

Understandably i think.

However this is in the past and should remain there, the big point now is the rebuilding (or rebirth) of the Holy Grail.

[BeetleBug]

the big point now is the rebuilding (or rebirth) of the Holy Grail.

Amen to that!

Best rgs
BB

[Prowagen]

Legend, Glad there is someone out there like you Russell, If I had the cash I would be exactly the same, good on you. Its great that the European VW scene has such dedicated guys, well done to al envolved, Russell, Keith, Kobus etc. Whatch out So Cal Europe is coming up fast!!!! LOL

[Lee.C]

Sounds like it's had a few alterations.  Not ! To put things into perspective, think about the amount of racing cars, in the circuit racing world for example, which have been smashed and rebuilt with a new body, chassis and had more than one engine and are still sold as the genuine thing with racing provenance.

Some of those cars are a bit like the builder's shovel which he has had for 30 years and has had 25 heads and 15 handles, but is still the same old shovel...

I heard a story about a '73 911 RS which had been re-shelled when virtually new and the old shell was used to make another 911 RS - so there were two cars out there which were basically the same 911RS - the question is which was actually original? Try neither! But then neither one of the owners would agree with you, I'm sure. And then there's the reconstructions such as the Auto-Union racers made from more new parts than originals by Crossthwaite and Gardener. Are they still Auto Unions? Depends on your perspective.


It sounds as though the most important part of Tar Babe is there, and hopefully the price wasn't so high that you feel duped. Although it sounds like you already feel you were getting more than you got - as you've mentioned the engine you didn't get.
 

Yeah I've got more than a few stories like that from my days "Restoring" old Ferrari Race Cars 

But anyway back to the "Re-Birth"

[Trond Dahl]

Congratulations on finally getting the car Russell :-)
I hope we get continous updates on the progress!
SO glad to hear you are planning on a proper rebuild

I hope you get around to VOWO show, see you soon

[empicolector]

good luck russel i am with you

[SlingShot]

the big point now is the rebuilding (or rebirth) of the Holy Grail.

I have to disagree with the Holy Grail part. I believe Inch Pincher 1 would be classified as the Holiest of Holy Either way nice Score 

[Russell]

I agree too slingshot but as its dead you cant score whats not there, therefore nexr in line in IMHO is Tar Babe, they are slightly different in that Tar babe was a built looker/racer, IP1 developed over time from a stock car.

[Ivan]

I agree too slingshot but as its dead you cant score whats not there, therefore next in line in IMHO is Tar Babe.

Agree with you on that one bro! 

[deano]

Knowing that one of the doors currently on Tar Babe is a genuine Empi fiberglass unit, chopped to fit the roof line.... wouldn't it be interesting if once the black paint was removed, it turned out to be from the Inch Pincher II?

[Ivan]

Knowing that one of the doors currently on Tar Babe is a genuine Empi fiberglass unit, chopped to fit the roof line.... wouldn't it be interesting if once the black paint was removed, it turned out to be from the Inch Pincher II?

I doubt Russell would be too happy - he was told the car was Tar Babe!