Problems with new motor....No Drag Day-UPDATE

[DKK Ted]

Well fired up my motor and had so many problems, Oil pressure for one, but finally built up, then my High Torque Started fell of my motor. What happen there was all my fault, was so much in a hurry, I forgot to put the top engine bolt on, when I kept trying to start it, I guess was to much stress on the starter, the lower part mount broke. The starter still works, but can't mount it. So here I go putting my self supporting starter in, and it was dragging. When I finally started the motor, there was a seems like a valve train knock type of noise. loud! All parts are new, even had the case lifter bore's bushed. Everything seemed just right during assembly. I checked valve lash, its perfect. There is no side play on the rockers either. I'm stumped. SOOO! I'll be at Drag Day watching. Any input on what might be the problem there?? 

[WCB Hitler's Hot Rod]

Bring your umbrella!

[Jim Ratto]

Well fired up my motor and had so many problems, Oil pressure for one, but finally built up, then my High Torque Started fell of my motor. What happen there was all my fault, was so much in a hurry, I forgot to put the top engine bolt on, when I kept trying to start it, I guess was to much stress on the starter, the lower part mount broke. The starter still works, but can't mount it. So here I go putting my self supporting starter in, and it was dragging. When I finally started the motor, there was a seems like a valve train knock type of noise. loud! All parts are new, even had the case lifter bore's bushed. Everything seemed just right during assembly. I checked valve lash, its perfect. There is no side play on the rockers either. I'm stumped. SOOO! I'll be at Drag Day watching. Any input on what might be the problem there?? 

Oh Ted, man sorry to hear that. I have had those days, trust me. I've tried to teach myself, deadlines aren't worth the stress and chance for mistakes. About 8-9 years ago, I built a very sweet 2332 for my '67, spent mucho $ on parts, machine work, etc. When I was stretching bolts on rods, and writing the stretch down, I had a jabber jaw kid in the garage (now I like NOBODY around when I build motor except glass of ice water and Greateful Dead CDs)....gab gab gab...I was getting impatient, but kept working. Weeks later I finally got motor in car, spun it for oil pressure, bolted up rockers, plugs, carbs, etc...lit if off, and WHACK WHACK WHACK.... shut it off, pulled valve covers, everthing specs out. So I tired again...again the knocking noise, getting worse, shut it off. Pull motor, strip heads off, and big witness mark that piston was hitting head/valves, which made no sense, clayed all that had .120"+. Well come to find, forgot to tighten (stretch) one ROD. It was just hanging there along for the ride. Luckily inside of case only had tiny nick, rod was ok. But all that work, oil, sweat, aches...not to mention valves hitting piston flattened cam lifter on that hole....yes that quickly....$330 hard weld 86C and Web lifters. Gone.

So sorry man, hope it is nothing BAD. Maybe just a pushrod seated in cup after you set valves or a lash cap set down?

It's ok man, tomorrow is another day.

[Rennsurfer]

Awww... bummer, Ted. Like Jim posted; hope that it's nothing too major. See y'all in a short while.

[Jim Ratto]

Question, If the piston or rod was put in the wrong direction, would that cause a noise, knock?? I tend to think that may be it, don't know....yet.   

it would but not as severe as it seems like it sounded to you.
no coil bind?
no valve-to-piston hitting?
enough room between backside of lifter @ case?
skirt of piston not hitting crank @ BDC?
nut down intake? of course, those don't have a rythym to them
let me know if you need any help, Ted....  and best of luck...been there before, 

[Jim Ratto]

Hey Jim missed ya at Drag Day. This motor was my old big motor but with now a smaller cam and smaller heads. As far as the bottom end, nothing has changed, meaning, same crank, rods, pistons and barrel shims. Lifters are Scats like before. I did have Brothers do the lifters bores. I did check the clearance between the bottom of the lifter and the top of it. The back of the piston does have clearance with the crank. And there is more cleance between the valves than. My old set-up was .616 lift, now around .500. This is why I'm thinking that it's the rods or pistons. For some reason I was more in a hurry building this thing and might have missed soomething. What I'm going to do is put my 1776 back like next week because of Easter this weekend. And work on the motor and take my time on it when I take it apart. I want to check everything. I'll just cruz with you guys from Sarges house to Fontana, according to what Bill has told me and just show the car. Can't race a 1776 like I would want to. Not as much as fun as a BIG motor. I'll keep you posted on whats going on. Hey, scored on a set of Itlian IDA's at Drag Day and a non-fresh air Thing fan shroud. Take care.

well...let us know how it goes, Ted.... best of luck

[Rennsurfer]

Hey, scored on a set of Itlian IDA's at Drag Day and a non-fresh air Thing fan shroud. Take care.

Nice score, Ted. I knew about the shroud... didn't know that you got some 48s.

[stealth67vw]

What kind of cam gears? They could be out of round.

[Rick Meredith]

Kind of a long shot but could the lifters be hanging up or bottoming??

[Rick Meredith]

Can you isolate it to one head or cylinder?

[Rick Meredith]

No Problem Ted... sometimes it helps to have several heads working on your problem. 

[Jim Ratto]

I still think coil bind or bent valve stuck in guide.

[Rick Meredith]

That would be my first guess too Jim,

[drgouk]

Valve to piston clearence, coil bind, bearing clearences, rocker geometry, valve pocket radial clearence, etc, are things that should ALWAYS be checked when buliding a motor, You should have a bulid sheet and which should reveal all the above info.
On my motors, i can even tell you the lifter bore clearence on every hole, and the wrist pin clearence!
It just makes it alot easier when you have a problem, you can refer to your bulid sheet, and work your way through it, and resolve it, and learn for next time.

[Neil Davies]

Valve to piston clearence, coil bind, bearing clearences, rocker geometry, valve pocket radial clearence, etc, are things that should ALWAYS be checked when buliding a motor, You should have a bulid sheet and which should reveal all the above info.
On my motors, i can even tell you the lifter bore clearence on every hole, and the wrist pin clearence!
It just makes it alot easier when you have a problem, you can refer to your bulid sheet, and work your way through it, and resolve it, and learn for next time.

Good idea - I know I kept tabs on jetting, MSD settings, all that sort of stuff when I was racing, but never thought to have a sheet when building. Seems obvious now you say about it!

[John Rayburn]

Take the heads off and have Jeff check that you didn't bend your valves. Personally, beings you ran the thing, I'd check to make sure you didn't bend any rods or the crank.

[John Rayburn]

Better safe is right! That would be a drag to put it back in just to find another problem! Give Jeff a holler so you can run the heads over, then check out the rest while he's checking things on his end . Good luck!!!

[WCB Hitler's Hot Rod]

Are you using your Ti rods with the new motor?