front mounted oil coolers?

[ian c]

the sump is actually lower ....... and the berg bar lower than that ...... and the filter lower than that .....

i think i'm gonna look at jim rattos set-up , but will see how it goes when i have the new engine up and running .

edit : just checked on a pic , my filter isn't lower !!! 

[Bruce]

If you have a Berg style intermediate mount, IT is the lowest point on the chassis.

Hmmmm I guess but fitting a berg mount JUST so you can mount the cooler there - seems alittle wierd to me 

If that's the reason you think everyone uses a Berg intermediate mount, you'd better go back to driving a Honda.

[Lee.C]

If you have a Berg style intermediate mount, IT is the lowest point on the chassis.

Hmmmm I guess but fitting a berg mount JUST so you can mount the cooler there - seems alittle wierd to me 

If that's the reason you think everyone uses a Berg intermediate mount, you'd better go back to driving a Honda.

ok i'll go and get my civic out then  I understand why you'd fit the intermediate mount - don't worry

To me as I have already mentioned MANY times it just seem silly to me to mount these somewhat delicate coolers in vunerable places be it under your gearbox OR at the front under the bumper - its just my 2 cents dude 

[nicolas]

DUDE that looks rather risky

Being centered to the axle means that when you hit a bump, the cooler rises with the car.  If you run a Berg style intermediate mount, any rocks that kick up will get deflected out of the way. 
Wouldn't bother me to put the cooler there.

yes it goes up with the car, but if you ever happen to get on a small road where the track is deeper it maybe hit. also if you get off a curb the car drops a bit more and the cooler can be damaged. true it is a good place to cool, but on a roadcar i would never use this setup for safety reasons.
i drove off a small sidewalk with the type3 and the exittube on the fullflow was sticking less then an inch out from the bottom of the engine and it hit the curb. oil was everywere and it nearly killed  the engine alltogether as all oil was going through the pump. luckily this happened 20 yards from the firedepartment and they were kind enough to help me out, clean the road and even gave me some oil after i fixed the leak on their bridge.
i am even very allert now, because i run a sump.

[Lee.C]

"yes it goes up with the car, but if you ever happen to get on a small road where the track is deeper it maybe hit. also if you get off a curb the car drops a bit more and the cooler can be damaged. true it is a good place to cool, but on a roadcar i would never use this setup for safety reasons."

Very very good points dude - I was going to mention them too

I don't know if you guys have them over there in europe but we have these crappy speed bumps here in the UK that are only a small hump in the middle of each lane which effectivly creates a lane with HUGE ruts - I have even scraped the sump of the manx on these 

[ian c]

ok . good answers guys .....
when i posted my pics ,  i forgor to add ...

"will not be used on farm-tracks or country lanes

this set-up has been running round o.c for god knows how many years ......................   but i'm with you , i'm not perfectly hasppy with it !!

but like i said , i'll wait until i get an idea of the "hotness" of the new build before i do anything avbout it !!!

translated : this car is over 5.5k mi;les away , and goes o.k .   ......  doesnt really care about "road" debris

[Harry/FDK]

My new set-up. Twin cooler/fan combo. Coolers are just taking airstream from under the floorpans. Sorry for the crap under the car.

[Diederick/DVK]

cool setup harry! same idea as the cagero coolers.
i'm sure these will work like a charm!!

[Lee.C]

My new set-up. Twin cooler/fan combo. Coolers are just taking airstream from under the floorpans. Sorry for the crap under the car.

  why do you euro guys want to mount your coolers so low 

[Harry/FDK]

cool setup harry! same idea as the cagero coolers.
i'm sure these will work like a charm!!

Thanks Died, Hope so and will let you know.

[Harry/FDK]

My new set-up. Twin cooler/fan combo. Coolers are just taking airstream from under the floorpans. Sorry for the crap under the car.

  why do you euro guys want to mount your coolers so low 

Hey Monkiboy, it's not that low everything is mounted under the framehorns close to the torsionbar-housings. Coolers stick out under the floorpan just to get some air for about 3 to 4 cm.

Harry

[Lee.C]

My new set-up. Twin cooler/fan combo. Coolers are just taking airstream from under the floorpans. Sorry for the crap under the car.

  why do you euro guys want to mount your coolers so low 

Hey Monkiboy, it's not that low everything is mounted under the framehorns close to the torsionbar-housings. Coolers stick out under the floorpan just to get some air for about 3 to 4 cm.

Harry

yeah I just realised thay you guys with Bugs have that "low area" on the floorpan - mine is modified to be almost FLAT for off roading so I guess yours is not really that low 

 As I have said its just a personal thing I have about fitting cooler in places like this - I am sure it will do an awsome job of keeping your motor cool 

Also Died's - I am not a massive fan of that cooler kit you brought - it seems to cut off more air flow than it gains 

[Harry/FDK]

BTW  Monkiboy, How's youre Euro Vacantion going on..

[Lee.C]

BTW  Monkiboy, How's youre Euro Vacantion going on..

No vacantion for me dude - plans changed alittle - I'm back in the UK earning money for SCC - its gonna cost me SOOOOOOOOO much in fuel 

I have big plans for a eruo road trip next year though - trust me 

Anyway back to oil coolers 

[Harry/FDK]

Let's Cool then 

[Doktor]

In Europe most people mount their oil coolers in the front  with original or 30 mm pump and 13 mm inside diameter oil lines . I think it is An 10 !? For me Setrap coolers are the best , you can get these in different sizes .

Udo

Thats right.

My friend has a 1776ccm engine ina a 1303 cabrio beetle.
Oil cooler is mounted on the front end, somewhere below front apron.
That 1776ccm engine is very interesting (true old school ?): it has stock non-counterweight and unballanced crank with only four dowells, W120 cam, stock 35x32 heads, 2x Weber 40 IDF's, a 009 style distributor and only a single hi-rew springs and a CSP exaust system.
Oil cooler is froma a Mercedes W123 and is fed by 30mm oil pump...
Oil temps don't go above 90 degrees celsius on the open road at almost all speeds (measured with VDO temp gauge and deepstick sender)..

Sounds cool...

[j-f]

As I'm fitting a new oil radiator in front of my car, I took some pictures of what I've done to install the oil hose.
So, I drill 2 holes in the chassis, between the 2 framehornes. The hoses pass now in the tunnel and goes out through the plate which is beside the front beam. I protect the holes with rubbers that comes from a T3 but don't know parts numbers ? 
 
I don't know if it is a good solution or if there are risks to damage something in the tunnel but I found this was a not too bad solution. And a friend use this system on his racetrack car for years. 

I also use a Mercedes radiator, but I have problems because nozzles are not the same as the old one, that come also from a Mercedez 

Hope it can help and sorry for the crap, picture don't give justice to my car   

[Lee.C]

Looks good dude BUT its the cooler its self I worry about 

[j-f]

Looks good dude BUT its the cooler its self I worry about 

It's mounted in front of the beam, almost invisible. I know you fear road debris but I can use a wire netting to protect it just in case.

This engine was first installed in a 65 that was used in historical rally. The guy mount the radiator beside the bumper... And never have problems with! 

[Lids]

Jim at Stateside tuning ran oil coolers mounted to the front beam, this always provides the best cooling.  any other position on a bug requires work to get them to be as efficient.

For example the area above the gearbox and below the boot floor is almost devoid of airflow, my car is still spotless under there even with all the daily driving it used to receive.  This is why you need to fit a fan! then you realise some ducts would help!

on a modern car the radiator is fitted in direct airflow, and they seem to cope with road debris.  Admittedly they are a little higher.  Just to help you should fit a gauge.

[Rasser]

I mounted my cooler just below the rear framehorns that carry the gearbox/motor. i mounted a mercedes oilcooler as Torben Alstrup has mentioned. This setup works EXTREMELY well, and on a callooker there are NO clearance-problems, and the cooler can´t be seen unless you know it´s there.

I think this sound pretty fascinating! Do you have any pics to share Rasser?
I'm also curious as to how you mount the cooler to the framehorns...

As for me, I'm still in doubt what kind of oil cooler to use on my 1915, so I'll definitely follow this thread closely!

Here ya go!

[BeetleBug]

Which cooler is that Rasser?

[Rasser]

Mercedes something....

It still has the sticker with the part number on it, I can have a look if you like ?

[j-f]

I have this one

Part numbers
A0021883001
27697216
1142140

But I also use a Mocal 16 row that fits easily on the right side of the beam.

[BeetleBug]

Mercedes something....

It still has the sticker with the part number on it, I can have a look if you like ?

Please and thanks.

[Lee.C]

I mounted my cooler just below the rear framehorns that carry the gearbox/motor. i mounted a mercedes oilcooler as Torben Alstrup has mentioned. This setup works EXTREMELY well, and on a callooker there are NO clearance-problems, and the cooler can´t be seen unless you know it´s there.

I think this sound pretty fascinating! Do you have any pics to share Rasser?
I'm also curious as to how you mount the cooler to the framehorns...

As for me, I'm still in doubt what kind of oil cooler to use on my 1915, so I'll definitely follow this thread closely!

Here ya go!

I'm gonna stir things up a little again cos thos pic's just send a shiver down my spine it just looks so "naked" hanging there - Just my 2 cents guys 

[Rasser]

I mounted my cooler just below the rear framehorns that carry the gearbox/motor. i mounted a mercedes oilcooler as Torben Alstrup has mentioned. This setup works EXTREMELY well, and on a callooker there are NO clearance-problems, and the cooler can´t be seen unless you know it´s there.

I think this sound pretty fascinating! Do you have any pics to share Rasser?
I'm also curious as to how you mount the cooler to the framehorns...

As for me, I'm still in doubt what kind of oil cooler to use on my 1915, so I'll definitely follow this thread closely!

Here ya go!

I'm gonna stir things up a little again cos thos pic's just send a shiver down my spine it just looks so "naked" hanging there - Just my 2 cents guys 

It sits down there not for the looks, but for optimum cooling.  And it cools perfect - how does a maximum of 85 degree oil temp at 150km/h sound (over a 100km long testdrive with constant high speed - type 4 engine). It looks naked because it is put right down where the air is beeing forced through it while driving. No fan can ever produce this much air pressure. Its all business 

If you are worried about the cooler hitting the road - Don´t be!!  It is mounted so close to the axles that when I drive over an object, then the cooler "follows" the wheels, and not the body - off course everything has it limits, but you get the idea. I have driven like that for 3 years now, and never ever hit anything!
And it isn´t noticeable from the outside like a front mounted, but it has all the benefits that the front mounted has.

Best oil-cooling money can buy!

[Rasser]

I have this one

Part numbers
A0021883001
27697216
1142140

But I also use a Mocal 16 row that fits easily on the right side of the beam.

That´s exactly the one I use, i just removed the center mount of the cooler.

[BeetleBug]

Just to confirm with you Rasser, you found this oil cooler at your local Mercedes dealer or did you take it from a old car?

I like the small and neat size of it. I noticed Setrab is also selling some small ones.

Best rgs
BB

[Diederick/DVK]

thanks for posting rasser! very neat cooler indeed! it's just that i already bought a cagero cooler ($$) 
but this does look very interesting. and i can see what you mean about the position, perfect airflow and it's in almost between the axles! there's only one way you can hit it and that's with these road bumps we have in holland that are only 1.5m wide and go underneath the car.

did you just bolt it on, or did you weld those brackets to the frame horns?

and lee, it'll be fine! just don't drive it like a buggy