Will cal-look survive?

[Jon]

Street rods are driven by old men... hot rods in the early style are driven by young guys...
In the VW world the kids drive resto lookers or rat rides... and the older "kids" wants super shiny lookers... with high tech engines still trying to keep true to the style.

makes me wonder...are we painting us into a corner?

When we first started the lounge it was full of young European guys doing their thing... call it a entry level cal-look style... they are to a large degree gone...
With their less than perfect paint and stock interiors they now seek other venues.. hasn't the Lounge/cal-look anything to offer them?

With every week that passes there are more and more comments like, "if it isn't clean / nice or shiny it isn't cal-look"
I think I have heard the same thing said in the Street rod crowd... and that is a dying breed... once you loose the kids, you are headed for history...

This might be a bigger problem on the forum than in real life... as most people don't give a rats ass about peoples opinions in real life... but they don't put up with it on the net...

Any thoughts?

[Trond Dahl]

There is a big stretch from the 70's cal-looker to the newer supershiny resto-cals, and many people, cars and opinions in between.
I belivere you are covering a topic here that is of big importance to the scene.
Personally I dont think one end of the scale is more cal-look then the other, but I respect that people try to stay true to the part of the timeline they appreciate.

The comments you are talking about are bullshit and if that prevents even one guy from posting his opinions, car or project on The Lounge, we might have "lost" our purpose.
It would be really sad if the comments/opinions of a group of people unfairly dominates the quality, width and atmosphere that we have here on The Lounge.

What you mention might be a culture/trend worldwide, but with our purpose for creating this forum in mind, I hope we can avoid it here.

To say it another way; the day I have to split the cal-look board into two boards, one for each timeline, thats the day I turn off the power instead.

[alex d]

being 30 I don't think I'm a kid anymore, but my car still has less than perfect paint (in fact it's getting worse every day) and the interior...well,  but I keep checking every day the lounge!

[Russell]

My view is there is room for all and we should all appreaciate that, its far better to a car eveolve by the owner as was done in the day rather than heres another new one, dont get me wrong i like shiny new ones as well but i still think a non perfect car looks alot harder and better and true to our style that we love.

[Nico86]

Cal-look will survive as long as there are some guys that built simple, fonctional, fast and well-thinked air-cooled VWs in their garage. Shiny or not we don't care if the car is made with good feelings.

[BeetleBug]

Shine will NEVER replace attitude!

[Donny B.]

When our club was in it's beginnings we had a bunch of not finished cars.  We still do.  Some still look great to me.  I was always looking for incremental improvements in the cars.  The owners were always making small affordable improvements in their cars.  We should not criticize but encourage everyone to participate and enjoy the scene.  Not everyone can throw money at the problem to make it better.  Most have to do the work for themselves little by little.  I know that I had my car eleven years before it was nice enough to really be proud of it.  I did the little things to make it look better and more reliable first, but I couldn't afford the big engine and new paint for years.  I always did the mechanical stuff first, because I could to that myself.  Just because some cars look kind of ratty doesn't mean that we should discourage the owners.  I realize that the hood ride scene doesn't help, but we need to get past that to grow the hobby.  My car is getting old now and doesn't look near what it did nor what I would like it to.  This hobby draws a broad spectrum of people from all over the world.  Remember it takes a special person to drive a 40 year old car and work on it daily.  I guess that makes us all special.  We know these little cars are very special.  I am less concerned about the hobby than I am about quality parts availability.  Many shops have gone under in the past few years making it harder to get the stuff you need.  If the good manufacturers decide it is no longer profitable then we really have a problem.  JMO...

[Nico86]

Shiny or not we don't care if the car is made with good feelings.

2 VWs I like.

[Sarge]

You've got to start someplace and for most here it wasn't with a finished car.  There have been plenty of stories shared from us older guys of how we thrashed to shine up worn paint and make our stuff the best we could with what we had.  To just jump into the scene with a perfect car is not how most here have done it.  I'd like to think things will continue on the way they are with Cal Look... we are just a small niche group of the overall VW picture but one that we should all be proud to be a part of.  Most importantly, we need to be supportive of the new guys that come our way... it's hard to know it all and do it right when money's an issue and your not sure of yourself.  

[Nico86]

You've got to start someplace and for most here it wasn't with a finished car.  There have been plenty of stories shared from us older guys of how we thrashed to shine up worn paint and make our stuff the best we could with what we had.  To just jump into the scene with a perfect car is not how most here have done it.  I'd like to think things will continue on the way they are with Cal Look... we are just a small niche group of the overall VW picture but one that we should all be proud to be a part of.  Most importantly, we need to be supportive of the new guys that come our way... it's hard to know it all and do it right when money's an issue and your not sure of yourself.  

I think you said everything  . Where is the pleasure to buy a finished car ? For me starting with an used car, try to make it run and look as nice as possible, and then start restoring it when the time has come, doing all I can with my hands is a big part of the pleasure to have an old car.

[danny gabbard]

In all car cultures there all types. people should build what they want not what other people think is cool. And I don't think the street rod industry is slowing down a bit,take for instince the steel 32 3 window coupe body's brookville is reproduceing at about 25 thousand a copy. Do not think they would invest the money and time in tooling if the street rod thing was dieing. In the vw industry there's room for the new guys and old guys but we are definately a breed of are own and most are getting older and can afford the {shiney} cars and appreciate ALL vws. Cal-look is  a yes on attitude! ok i,m done BYE.

[Rennsurfer]

Gabbard nailed it... his post is spot on. Personally, I don't see nice Cal Look VW cars dying out. There's too much interest it them, now. That, plus people aren't going to let it die anytime, soon. The number of individuals... or core group may change. But it's here to stay. We were without it for too long. There's obviously enough passion for it to keep it going.

My usual useless 2¢.

[Jim Ratto]

I was just thinking about this very same train of thought this morning while I was feeding my son, Lucas. I was thinking, "is this little guy going to have the same opportunities for fun as I did and my peers did when I was 16-17-18-19 years old?"
Honestly, if he follows my interests in cars and car culture and historic racecars, cool. If not... that's cool too.

Anyway, things are obviously much different in the world today than they were 15, 20, 30 years ago. I think the days of high school parking lots brimming over with teenagers' VW cal look cars are long gone. Which is a sad thing, because who has more enthusiasm for developing a small scene around him, automotive-wise, than a adrenaline filled teenager with a fresh driver's license? Not a 38 year old like me, that's for sure. You get older, you gain responsibilities, you gain worries to keep you from sleeping at night, you make more money but you spend more, and instead of going out and having fun, we sit around and catch up with old friends, trying to relive "the old days." We need the kids and their freedom and thier energy. But do kids want to get in a 50 year old economy car, that was designed pre-WWII nowadays.... and then actually work on them? Maybe, but I bet you lunch the number of kids is shrinking big time. Instead they can go get a Scion or a Civic or....? and plug chips in and show off their blue headlights (instead of their Weber 44's). Not the same now is it?
I don't think it's right that only "world beater" cars deserved to be appreciated as "real cal look" cars..... to me that's baloney. I think too many guys have spread the "cost is no object" theory onto too many parts of the car, and onto too many cars. You end up with these $50,000+ cars that rarely see light of day and that, in my opinion, don't attract newcomers. Maybe cool in some people's books to have a car of that caliber, and that's cool for them, but to me, those cars are not where it's at. To me a hot rod VW should be driven, and driven fairly hard. You never know when there's gonna be some 12-13 yr old blossoming young gearhead cruising down the street on his BMX, listening and watching in awe as you run through the gears with your Webers wide open. No joke.... it happened to me.
I hope the VW hobby, as we practice it, isn't a dying breed. I think it's sort of our responsibility to welcome young new blood and help encourage them. While the world is different, things cost more, traffic is more dangerous, the "I want it now" thing prevailing.... still, I think for real car guys, nothing will ever beat hanging out with like minded friends on a Saturday night in some guys' garage, talking about cars.

[Jesse/DVK]

Offcourse cal-look will survive, but when I look in the Netherlands for instance, a lot of the 'kids' (like me @ 21 years old) are slamming their bugs, rolling them and make rat rides of them. Well that's really not my thing. But I can understand why they do it, costs are low. You won't need a shiny paint, big motors, expensive wheels and accessoires. And when I go to a meeting the crowd is always looking more to their rats than my cal-looker   

For me I'm just trying to make the best of it, it's hard being a student but I will get there. Maybe the 'old' guys could tell us the 'kids' something more about their first cars, and engines, that would give great input on us.

[Rennsurfer]

I don't think it's right that only "world beater" cars deserved to be appreciated as "real cal look" cars..... to me that's baloney. I think too many guys have spread the "cost is no object" theory onto too many parts of the car, and onto too many cars. You end up with these $50,000+ cars that rarely see light of day and that, in my opinion, don't attract newcomers. Maybe cool in some people's books to have a car of that caliber, and that's cool for them, but to me, those cars are not where it's at. To me a hot rod VW should be driven, and driven fairly hard. You never know when there's gonna be some 12-13 yr old blossoming young gearhead cruising down the street on his BMX, listening and watching in awe as you run through the gears with your Webers wide open. No joke.... it happened to me.

I hope the VW hobby, as we practice it, isn't a dying breed. I think it's sort of our responsibility to welcome young new blood and help encourage them. While the world is different, things cost more, traffic is more dangerous, the "I want it now" thing prevailing.... still, I think for real car guys, nothing will ever beat hanging out with like minded friends on a Saturday night in some guys' garage, talking about cars.

Great points, all around, Jim. (btw, I thought that you were a lot younger... keep doing whatever you're doing) I especially agree with the $50k car syndrome. Obviously, it's a matter of personal choice to do that. But, for me, my goal is to build my '67 on a shoestring budget. So far, so good. The deals are out there. Gotta be at the right place at the right time, sometimes... but it's well worth the wait. On my first car, the dollar was way stronger and I had more money than I knew what to do with since I had so many different income sources. Nowadays, I have a mortgage, child support, raising two high school aged sons, and all of the related current day expenses. So the budget Cal Look VW isn't only a goal, but it's really the only way I CAN build/enjoy one. But, believe it or not, I've been wanting to build a car like this since the mid '80s. (Rayburn and a few of my skateboard/surf friends can vouch for me) The entire theory on my car is that less is more. I've already had a full on Cal Look car and I've worked on too many to remember. Helping friends build their's, build their engines, prep 'em for car shows, etc. I want something super basic and cheap.

At any rate, you're right... kids need to see that a fun Cal Looker can be had if you do most of the work yourself and be patient, looking for deals on used stuff. I got lucky and scored wheels/tires, carbs, distributor, etc. for almost nothing. Thanks to some friends that either sold 'em to me cheap or literally gave me things. So far, I have very little invested in my current car. My younger son has noticed all of what I've mentioned and he's motivated to build one, too. So I can contribute at least one more future generation kid that'll keep Cal Look going. HAHA!!

I'll never forget the day that took place. We woke up one day. My older boy was somewhere with his friends. My younger one takes the car cover off of the '67. I had just lowered it, shortly after I bought it. He asked for the keys. We opened it up and I wiped down the car. He asked if he could drive  it, 'cause he'd never driven an air-cooled car. Of course, we pulled the car out and I turned him loose in it. We pulled the car back in after taking a few pictures of him driving it. He hands me the keys and says, "Okay, Padre... after we get my daily driver (my ex's Volvo) all painted and dialed in, I'm building a Cal Look Bug! Driving that car is COOL!" A few weeks later, I added the .009 distributor, ICT carbs, and the A-1 exhaust. He knew that and next time he was at my house, he drove it again. He said it felt like a different car and can't wait till my 1915cc is in there. That makes two of us.

The numbers won't be huge, but I think the future is safe and Cal Look will never die.

[Nico86]

But I can understand why they do it, costs are low.

When you see the prices of parts some buy to lower the car (dropped spindles, narrowed beam, notched spring plates, airbags kits, etc...).

We talked about kids and this style on another thread, but there are young guys in the cal-look/racing thing.

[louisb]

We should never exclude someone based on how much or how little they spent on their car if it is in the spirit of Cal-look. Part of the problem with attracting younger folks is the cost of entry into the hobby. While rust free cars are still cheap in some areas of the US, its not the norm in most parts of the world. Add to that motor, tranny, wheels, tires, interior, etc and the cost can rise quickly. Now you can do it on a budget and you can do it a little at a time, but it will still cost a good bit of coin. There is also the problem of attitude you see with some of the members of the Cal-look community. While most on here are very friendly, there are a lot of folks in this hobby who would not give some young kid the time of day.

--louis

[Zach Gomulka]

Cal Look will never die.

[Jim Ratto]

I don't think it's right that only "world beater" cars deserved to be appreciated as "real cal look" cars..... to me that's baloney. I think too many guys have spread the "cost is no object" theory onto too many parts of the car, and onto too many cars. You end up with these $50,000+ cars that rarely see light of day and that, in my opinion, don't attract newcomers. Maybe cool in some people's books to have a car of that caliber, and that's cool for them, but to me, those cars are not where it's at. To me a hot rod VW should be driven, and driven fairly hard. You never know when there's gonna be some 12-13 yr old blossoming young gearhead cruising down the street on his BMX, listening and watching in awe as you run through the gears with your Webers wide open. No joke.... it happened to me.

I hope the VW hobby, as we practice it, isn't a dying breed. I think it's sort of our responsibility to welcome young new blood and help encourage them. While the world is different, things cost more, traffic is more dangerous, the "I want it now" thing prevailing.... still, I think for real car guys, nothing will ever beat hanging out with like minded friends on a Saturday night in some guys' garage, talking about cars.

Great points, all around, Jim. (btw, I thought that you were a lot younger... keep doing whatever you're doing) I especially agree with the $50k car syndrome. Obviously, it's a matter of personal choice to do that. But, for me, my goal is to build my '67 on a shoestring budget. So far, so good. The deals are out there. Gotta be at the right place at the right time, sometimes... but it's well worth the wait. On my first car, the dollar was way stronger and I had more money than I knew what to do with since I had so many different income sources. Nowadays, I have a mortgage, child support, raising two high school aged sons, and all of the related current day expenses. So the budget Cal Look VW isn't only a goal, but it's really the only way I CAN build/enjoy one. But, believe it or not, I've been wanting to build a car like this since the mid '80s. (Rayburn and a few of my skateboard/surf friends can vouch for me) The entire theory on my car is that less is more. I've already had a full on Cal Look car and I've worked on too many to remember. Helping friends build their's, build their engines, prep 'em for car shows, etc. I want something super basic and cheap.

At any rate, you're right... kids need to see that a fun Cal Looker can be had if you do most of the work yourself and be patient, looking for deals on used stuff. I got lucky and scored wheels/tires, carbs, distributor, etc. for almost nothing. Thanks to some friends that either sold 'em to me cheap or literally gave me things. So far, I have very little invested in my current car. My younger son has noticed all of what I've mentioned and he's motivated to build one, too. So I can contribute at least one more future generation kid that'll keep Cal Look going. HAHA!!

I'll never forget the day that took place. We woke up one day. My older boy was somewhere with his friends. My younger one takes the car cover off of the '67. I had just lowered it, shortly after I bought it. He asked for the keys. We opened it up and I wiped down the car. He asked if he could drive  it, 'cause he'd never driven an air-cooled car. Of course, we pulled the car out and I turned him loose in it. We pulled the car back in after taking a few pictures of him driving it. He hands me the keys and says, "Okay, Padre... after we get my daily driver (my ex's Volvo) all painted and dialed in, I'm building a Cal Look Bug! Driving that car is COOL!" A few weeks later, I added the .009 distributor, ICT carbs, and the A-1 exhaust. He knew that and next time he was at my house, he drove it again. He said it felt like a different car and can't wait till my 1915cc is in there. That makes two of us.

The numbers won't be huge, but I think the future is safe and Cal Look will never die.

Thanks Mark,  

I think you've got it figured out what turns kids on.... the experience. I'm sure something "clicked" with you when you were young, right?

for me it was a number of events, most happened before I had my own VW! There was a pair of guys in my sophmore drafting class in high school, they never got a flipping piece of work done because all they did was talk about Volkswagens. I found it annoying, to be honest. I wasn't into them yet (I wanted an Alfa Romeo or an MG.... this was 1984 before they all rusted away,...), but man, these guys would sit there for 90 minutes every day and talk about cases and heads and Webers vs Dellortos and 8 spokes and Fuldas and on and on and on it went. I thought "what a waste of time"... until one day one of the kids, Dan Jackson was his name, pulled into this strip mall parking lot in his yellow late model Bug while i sat perched on my BMX bike. he saw me and since he was sick of my heckling in class, proceded to send the car sideways in a huge plume of tire smoke and a big deep Weber growl. I was stunned. Next was going to Baylands, just after getting my '67, and seeing VW's run down 1/4 in 13 sec or less. Oh my Lord!
Next was riding in my friend's 2180cc '64 Bug (while we were street racing a 1978 Trrans Am). I'd have to say that was the final staw... I was hooked for sure after we smoked that guy. I was 17 at the time.... so 21 years ago.... wow.

[Jon]

I think it is as easy as "bang for the buck"... Young kids know how hard it is to get cash, they want the maximum amount of attention for their cash...
A slammed resto or a bagged Rat is a headturner... but so is a 14-15 sec looker, but in a so much more fun way...

I don't think the street rod industry is slowing down a bit,take for instince the steel 32 3 window coupe body's brookville is reproduceing at about 25 thousand a copy.

I am aware of these investments being made, the industry obviously wont die in many years, but these kinds of investments also makes my point stand out even more clearly. How many young kids get's into hopping up a hotrod nowadays? It's an "old mans" game... some kids do it of course...  because they want to do like their grandpa or father did. But I don't think even they consider a Brookville body as starting point. Again "bang for the buck"....


I believe that this is the way young guys get in to the Cal-thing.. except for the wheels perhaps... I dig it, it looks like fun!!

[danny gabbard]

I don't know about you guy's but Ive been into cars from the time I was old enough to by hot wheel till now, And thirty years ago every time I saw a lowered vw with some kind of porsche wheel empi etc.. it was just cool and hard to figure out but hopefully us and the kids comeing up will keep getting that high.And as fare as prices its a little out of hand, But remember this stuff is 40-50- years old. But on the other hand it kinda cool to see how fare this stuff has came value wise. remember when you could not give some of this stuff away, Kind of a hidden complment. Just my 3- 1/2 cents

[Jim Ratto]

I don't know about you guy's but Ive been into cars from the time I was old enough to by hot wheel till now, And thirty years ago every time I saw a lowered vw with some kind of porsche wheel empi etc.. it was just cool and hard to figure out but hopefully us and the kids comeing up will keep getting that high.And as fare as prices its a little out of hand, But remember this stuff is 40-50- years old. But on the other hand it kinda cool to see how fare this stuff has came value wise. remember when you could not give some of this stuff away, Kind of a hidden complment. Just my 3- 1/2 cents

kids need to realize that they don't HAVE to run 911 alloys or Torque Thrusts or OG Empis... chrome 356-style wheels work just fine. My car was no less fun when I ran those. Going to see the big-caliber Cal Look cars for me when I was a teenager and seeing the stuff I couldn't afford yet kept my momentum going though... mostly in the go-fast department. Once I had connections thru work, I found guys that had stuff ratholed away, like Weber 48's. But before that, it was no less fun, it was probably more so actually, because it's like anything else, you want to do it so badly, you try and try and try, and then finally get to, and then you're hooked and then you have to keep doing it... sound familiar?
One of my best memories of youth is driving by myself at 6:30am on my way to Baylands, only 1641, windows rolled down, Zeppelin blasting from 6 x 9's, car as clean as a 16 yr old could get it... 
Kids should experience what a high a car can give them....

[danny gabbard]

Not everybody has to start out with a high dollar car to be Cal-look, I don't  know about everone else but I try to build something nicer or different than the last one. And after 30 years of doing it , Yes they do get pricey but thats why I,m always working on something for a little extra money so I can spend it on this fricken habit that some of us have.For me I'd rather spend the money on my car than blow it setting on a bar stool or something else waistful. All I can say is that buildind these cars has been fun and some of my best friend have came from this hobby!

[javabug]

c'mon guys quit posting that green hoodride...   

[louisb]

c'mon guys quit posting that green hoodride...   

Whats wrong, don't want to be the poster child for an entry level cal-looker. 

Though I think your car is cool too. (Its all in the stance.)

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people equate Cal-look with DKP/JG54/DKK/etc quality cars so they feel they have to put up big bucks to be included.

--louis

[Jim Ratto]

c'mon guys quit posting that green hoodride...   

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people equate Cal-look with DKP/JG54/DKK/etc quality cars so they feel they have to put up big bucks to be included.

--louis

Even beyond DKP cars, if you ask me...
DKP cars, for the most part, all get driven. My car is probably the roughest appearing of the bunch, but none of the cars that regularly come around, are perfect. That's what makes them cool, to me.

Soul, not perfection. Cars with soul can tell a story. The worldbeaters just kind of come and go.... no story behind them.

[louisb]

Jim, you know the DKP cars get driven and have the road scars to prove it. But a lot of people don't see that. What they see is what is featured in magazines and books, which are show quality cars with all the bells and whistles. They, and the other clubs like them, are considered the creme of the crop and most people expect them to be flawless. And since that is the expectation, they think to be a cal-looker you have to have the same quality. They also see all the 48s and 2 liters and berg 5s in the mags and think you have to have those to be cal-look. When the truth is, you can do a lot simpler and still get that Cal-look soul. But that is not what you see in the mags.

--louis

[javabug]

Whats wrong, don't want to be the poster child for an entry level cal-looker. 

Though I think your car is cool too. (Its all in the stance.)

Believe me, I'll take it...admittedly it is a great surpise to see my car posted in this thread.  Thanks gang!

And I agree with Jim and Louis about the DKP cars being driven and having the minor wear to prove it.  Its like "proof of love."

[LuftsickTero]

When we first started the lounge it was full of young European guys doing their thing... call it a entry level cal-look style... they are to a large degree gone...
With their less than perfect paint and stock interiors they now seek other venues.. hasn't the Lounge/cal-look anything to offer them?

That sounds very strange to me.. Has people really left this forum due to that?

What you're referring with "presentable car vs. patina" is IMO mostly a cultural difference between Europe and US. Based on some forums I read on regular basis most of the Yanks seem to think that a car with worn out paint automatically looks like it belongs to some poor kid who is flipping burgers for living.

I personally think that the Lounge has made positive leap from it was in the beginning with pointless arguing whether this and this car with or without trim is Cal Look or not and whether some drawing from 1975 is the only way to go

[Jim Ratto]

Jim, you know the DKP cars get driven and have the road scars to prove it. But a lot of people don't see that. What they see is what is featured in magazines and books, which are show quality cars with all the bells and whistles. They, and the other clubs like them, are considered the creme of the crop and most people expect them to be flawless. And since that is the expectation, they think to be a cal-looker you have to have the same quality. They also see all the 48s and 2 liters and berg 5s in the mags and think you have to have those to be cal-look. When the truth is, you can do a lot simpler and still get that Cal-look soul. But that is not what you see in the mags.

--louis

That's true, Louis, and that's what's cool about the Lounge. Mike's java green '67 featured here, to me, is just as cool as any other car, really. I know he has done a lot with the car, and has a lot of plans for it. His buddy's car, Maize's, that car is about as cool as they come, and then some. I think it is too bad if the magazines are turning guys away because they present the Cal Look thing as this "rich man's" hobby that only the elite few can aspire to or be part of. That's so far from the truth. It's not all about the money into cars. It's about the friends you made along the way, the stuff you learned, the funny memories, the parts you broke, the times you had to push car uphill....
I think for the scene to get passed on, if you will, there has to be more love for the cars and less focus on how much money guys have sunk into cars. To me finding the time to do stuff is more satisfying than finding the $ to do stuff. I've never had a lot of money to spend on stuff, hence I tried to become as self sufficient as I could over the years. I learned how to do as much stuff on these cars as I could. The stuff I don't know hwo to do and that I have to have others do is what is lacking on my car.... it's pretty obvious (paint, headliner, etc.).
Problems you and I can't control? the cars are nowhere near as plentiful as they used to be, and cars that make a good foundation are even harder to find, I know. But they're out there. I see a worn, but obviously cared-for Zenith Blue '67 almost every day, that this lady drives around Chatsworth. Someday she may want to sell it, and if she hasn't visited the (many) VW message boards and ebay/samba things, she's probably not going to charge some orbital price for it either. On the other hand you have these kids selling hoodride cars, which are no more than useless trash on samba for stupid money. They are making it harder for the young guys to get into the scene....
A clean car with a nice stance, a 1776 with good, used Webers or Kadrons, that shows it's cared for is something to be proud of! Does it have to be a '67 or earlier? NO. Does it have to have BRM's? NO. Does it have to have gauges, berg shifter, Empi GT wheel, 48's, 5-speed...? NO NO NO NO NO....
Check out Sarge's '63. Started out as a big bore 40HP (right Sarge?), then 1679 single port with Zenith (or Holley?), then 1679 with dual ports and 40PII's, then the IDA 1835.... he evolved. And is there anybody more deserving of being "cal look" than Sarge?