JPM head/TF1 case build and car mods for Hot rod drag week 2019 in Old cabrio

[richie]

Richie, what kind of barrels do you use, and are the powersleeved?  I am looking for some good quality barrels to my 4inch engine (101,6x86)

Thanks
Roar

Hi Roar,
these are just AA,I wanted to get this done and see what works,
autocraft have now got barrells in stock i believe from an email I got from Mike seymour,I am trying some finned Pauters on a 2232 turbo engine I have at the moment.
the 101.6s are so much thicker at the top compared to 94s that I dont think powersleeving will be needed

cheers richie

[richie]

At what pressure drop?

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

To make sense of flow numbers from different sources, you need to know what depression ("H2O) the tests were carried out at.
The higher the test depression, the bigger the flow numbers.

Old SuperFlow 110 benches were designed to test at 10". Some of the bigger SF benches use 25". Later SF600 uses 28".
28" is regarded by many as 'industry standard'.
Last time I looked CB were quoting figures taken at 25". JPM tests I've seen on here are also carried out at 25"
Therefore the theory is both sets of figures are directly comparable 

You can convert figures taken at one test depression for comparison with those taken at a different depression using this formula...
Multiply current cfm by square root of new test depression/old test depression

Eg, to convert cfm from 25" test to 28" equivalent, multiply 25" test cfm by 1.058

Works pretty good when converting from 25" to 28" (or vice versa) because there's relatively small difference in test pressures but using the formula to correct figures taken at 10" and expecting the results to accurately reflect a test done at 28" is a bit of a stretch. Better to pull the actual depression - but that takes a pretty powerful bench when testing the real high flow stuff.

Thankyou John for clearing that up  

Have mailed you about something unrelated

cheers richie

[Martin]

Richie, what kind of barrels do you use, and are the powersleeved?  I am looking for some good quality barrels to my 4inch engine (101,6x86)

Thanks
Roar

Hi Roar,
these are just AA,I wanted to get this done and see what works,
autocraft have now got barrells in stock i believe from an email I got from Mike seymour,I am trying some finned Pauters on a 2232 turbo engine I have at the moment.
the 101.6s are so much thicker at the top compared to 94s that I dont think powersleeving will be needed

cheers richie

I also am running the AA's in my motor, had them up to 2.6 Bar so far with no problems. But i have made a set up from Pauter blanks and Finned them just in case!

[n2o]

[/quote]


I also am running the AA's in my motor, had them up to 2.6 Bar so far with no problems. But i have made a set up from Pauter blanks and Finned them just in case!

[/quote]

So, it is possible to get blanks from autocraft? Then I can get them done, and use the fins that comes with the ARPM 3-liter case?

[Roman]

I also am running the AA's in my motor, had them up to 2.6 Bar so far with no problems. But i have made a set up from Pauter blanks and Finned them just in case!

[/quote]

So, it is possible to get blanks from autocraft? Then I can get them done, and use the fins that comes with the ARPM 3-liter case?

[/quote]

Hi Roar,
Do you have fins like on the picture? If you have I would buy sleeves from Darton. I spoke to Kris Lauffer when I was building my engine and he used custom Darton liners.
http://www.darton-international.com/mainpage.htm

[n2o]

Yeah, that is the fins I got...thanks Roman, I'll check with the Darton guys.

[richie]

Well after some consultation with Johannes i am going to try the 5 stud rocker set up as well,I will try both the 2 stud pauter rockers and Johannes own set up and see what negatives and positives each one has   Just got to wait for the world of international shipping to wake up after the holidays  ::)and we can get on with this

This is what i will be trying I case you havent seen it before

cheers richie

[Martin]

Why dont you run the Rollers on the 5 stud set up?

[drgouk]

Not sure why the Slamming on the CNC Comp Elims, Were making some pretty decent power with them here.. Lightly massaged Ex Ports, and a different Valve job. I think those heads are good value.
Flow Benches don't win races ( I Know.. I own one )

Have to agree with JHU - my own flow tests don't come anywhere close to advertised figures 

Turbo situation is a lot different and more forgiving of lower flow/low velocity

IMO, based on cfm per square inch of flow area, Comp Elim CNC is lacking and certainly on n/a engine will deliver less performance than other well developed heads with smaller port csa and higher flow (ie more efficient).

Been working on 46x38 CNC Comp Elims today and found a useful increase in flow and velocity by FILLING the intake port! .... as supplied it's wrong shape and too big.

Not on a mission to knock these heads - just a little disappointed to find they're not capable of getting close to the kind of power output the advertising blurb hints at.
Next time I'll start with non CNC version

I have found the same thing with a bare casting I got to do some devlopment on, They need a fin in the intake port to guide air around the guide and a much smaller port, lots of dead areas in the port, I removed the guide boss and my plastercine fin and losts flow. My next step with it is to move the valve guide centres back to original ,as with the wide centres, my small 44.5 intake valve is shrouded. I don'nt think I will need 46 or 48 valves to reach my target. 

[Udo]

Not sure why the Slamming on the CNC Comp Elims, Were making some pretty decent power with them here.. Lightly massaged Ex Ports, and a different Valve job. I think those heads are good value.
Flow Benches don't win races ( I Know.. I own one )

Have to agree with JHU - my own flow tests don't come anywhere close to advertised figures 

Turbo situation is a lot different and more forgiving of lower flow/low velocity

IMO, based on cfm per square inch of flow area, Comp Elim CNC is lacking and certainly on n/a engine will deliver less performance than other well developed heads with smaller port csa and higher flow (ie more efficient).

Been working on 46x38 CNC Comp Elims today and found a useful increase in flow and velocity by FILLING the intake port! .... as supplied it's wrong shape and too big.

Not on a mission to knock these heads - just a little disappointed to find they're not capable of getting close to the kind of power output the advertising blurb hints at.
Next time I'll start with non CNC version

Hi John

I think the cnc porting is good for most customers needs . You do not have that much work on the porting . Most customers don't  want to pay much money for the port work . If you do your own stuff you can take non cnc ported heads , By the way i got some good results with cnc and some hand work with na engines

udo

[John Maher]

Not sure why the Slamming on the CNC Comp Elims, Were making some pretty decent power with them here.. Lightly massaged Ex Ports, and a different Valve job. I think those heads are good value.
Flow Benches don't win races ( I Know.. I own one )

Have to agree with JHU - my own flow tests don't come anywhere close to advertised figures 

Turbo situation is a lot different and more forgiving of lower flow/low velocity

IMO, based on cfm per square inch of flow area, Comp Elim CNC is lacking and certainly on n/a engine will deliver less performance than other well developed heads with smaller port csa and higher flow (ie more efficient).

Been working on 46x38 CNC Comp Elims today and found a useful increase in flow and velocity by FILLING the intake port! .... as supplied it's wrong shape and too big.

Not on a mission to knock these heads - just a little disappointed to find they're not capable of getting close to the kind of power output the advertising blurb hints at.
Next time I'll start with non CNC version

Hi John

I think the cnc porting is good for most customers needs . You do not have that much work on the porting . Most customers don't  want to pay much money for the port work . If you do your own stuff you can take non cnc ported heads , By the way i got some good results with cnc and some hand work with na engines

udo

Hi Udo,

The smaller valved CNC heads (044s) aren't too bad and can be a good shortcut to a half decent performing head compared to the 'out of the box' version but my experience with the CE heads hasn't been so good, especially for n/a engines

I guess it depends what you're comparing them to.... when you've seen smaller valves and ports flowing more than a big mother f***er CNC head, AND add in the fact the advertising claims don't stand up, I'm less inclined to pay the CNC premium.

As you say... it comes down to the customer's expectations and budget   

[Udo]

As you say... it comes down to the customer's expectations and budget   

[/quote]

That's it . If we talk about the best heads for racing or the most flow there is no doubt about the Autocraft CD heads . I ordered a set for a turbo engine . And the work on these heads make a lot of fun . But very , very expensive . I sold only all parts (bare heads , guides , seats , titanium valves , rockers , valve covers IDA manifolds) for 4800 euros . Without any work, don't know how much they are if they get finished

Udo

[airstuff]

Hey Richie,

When is the motor going to be fired up?

[richie]

Hey Richie,

When is the motor going to be fired up?

Still got to make a header to fit it,also getting a decent fit on the tin is going to be interesting,it will need some extra metal added to the cylinder shrouds and a couple of other pieces as its so wide so a couple of weeks yet i guess

cheers richie

[58vw]

a couple of weeks yet..fire that thing up richie......i wanna see it run down beach blvd.

[richie]

Well havent had much time to do anymore recently,got fired up again today with some of the missing pieces turning up so back on it this weekend,heres what I got in the mail

[richie]

I have had the longblock in the car and the inner wing/fender area needs a little clearancing to fit the intake manifolds so that will be first,then I will start to fabricate the header.
The cylinder tins need some extra welded in nearest the case,so I got some extras to cut up to make this easier.

If i dont encounter to many problems I hope to  be able to run it up next week and at least get the cam run in done

cheers richie

[nicolas]

hey hey

seems like things are going really well there. still i think you are sunburned...

anyway, if you still have the problem with the fitting off the engine in the car. just don't bother anymore and crate that beaty up and send it to me. i am sure i can fit it in a nice brown car. off course i will cover half the shipping charges.

always there to lend a hand.

[Lee.C]

hey hey

seems like things are going really well there. still i think you are sunburned...

anyway, if you still have the problem with the fitting off the engine in the car. just don't bother anymore and crate that beaty up and send it to me. i am sure i can fit it in a nice brown car. off course i will cover half the shipping charges.

always there to lend a hand.

Na just imagine it in a certain little manx

[Jon]

All nice stuff Richie! To bad about the inner wings... why don't you get some pistons with lower piston pin height... apart form the $$$$?

[JS]

Richie, what kind of pushrods are those? Ti?

[Sander/DVK]

Richie, what kind of pushrods are those? Ti?

Alu I mean. I never heard of them. Are they al so good, and light as the pushrods from aircooled.net?

Here the link from vwspeedshop.com: http://www.vwspeedshop.com/shop/product.php?productid=1187&cat=348&page=1

[Rasser]

mantons are steel - right ?   

If I remember right, then they are quite thick walled and weigh about 80 grams pcs .... ?

[Rasser]

mantons are steel - right ?   

If I remember right, then they are quite thick walled and weigh about 80 grams pcs., compared to bergs that weigh 60grams .... ?

[Peter]

yeah they are steel

[Sander/DVK]

mantons are steel - right ?   

If I remember right, then they are quite thick walled and weigh about 80 grams pcs .... ?

You are right: " Manton lightweight 3/8 chromoly pushrods "

[richie]

Richie, what kind of pushrods are those? Ti?

They are thickwalled chromoly, 0.095 wall with a different heat treat, as the 0.058 wall thick were bending

Jon,even with a C height piston I would still have an issue as it already took the paint off on one side were it moves slightly on launching ,and thats only with 84 stroke and 5.6 rod.

When i get a chance I will make up a replacement piece with a bubble in it to allow the clearance

cheers richie

[Marty]

Do not worry about the pushrod weight.
The more boost and/or RPM you turn, the stiffer the pushrod you need.
I can tell you that most of the really high HP turbo cars are running 7/16ths diameter pushrods now.

[Martin]

Do not worry about the pushrod weight.
The more boost and/or RPM you turn, the stiffer the pushrod you need.
I can tell you that most of the really high HP turbo cars are running 7/16ths diameter pushrods now.

thats what I'm running in mine now with no signs of flex. the others would leave marks down the push-rod tubes.

[richie]

Do not worry about the pushrod weight.
The more boost and/or RPM you turn, the stiffer the pushrod you need.
I can tell you that most of the really high HP turbo cars are running 7/16ths diameter pushrods now.

When i spoke to Terry manton he did mention those,but said the K800 springs that i am using arent enough to control them,more roller cam terority I think?

cheers richie