JPM head/TF1 case build and car mods for Hot rod drag week 2019 in Old cabrio

[Martin]

Do not worry about the pushrod weight.
The more boost and/or RPM you turn, the stiffer the pushrod you need.
I can tell you that most of the really high HP turbo cars are running 7/16ths diameter pushrods now.

When i spoke to Terry manton he did mention those,but said the K800 springs that i am using arent enough to control them,more roller cam terority I think?

cheers richie

Sorry, I thought thats the route you were going down.


Martin

[richie]

Do not worry about the pushrod weight.
The more boost and/or RPM you turn, the stiffer the pushrod you need.
I can tell you that most of the really high HP turbo cars are running 7/16ths diameter pushrods now.

When i spoke to Terry manton he did mention those,but said the K800 springs that i am using arent enough to control them,more roller cam terority I think?

cheers richie

Sorry, I thought thats the route you were going down.


Martin

Next time,this is to far in to change now.

Got the header mocked up and tacked together over the weekend,will put a couple of pics up later

cheers richie

[K-Roc]

Not sure why the Slamming on the CNC Comp Elims, Were making some pretty decent power with them here.. Lightly massaged Ex Ports, and a different Valve job. I think those heads are good value.
Flow Benches don't win races ( I Know.. I own one )

Have to agree with JHU - my own flow tests don't come anywhere close to advertised figures 

Turbo situation is a lot different and more forgiving of lower flow/low velocity

IMO, based on cfm per square inch of flow area, Comp Elim CNC is lacking and certainly on n/a engine will deliver less performance than other well developed heads with smaller port csa and higher flow (ie more efficient).

Been working on 46x38 CNC Comp Elims today and found a useful increase in flow and velocity by FILLING the intake port! .... as supplied it's wrong shape and too big.

Not on a mission to knock these heads - just a little disappointed to find they're not capable of getting close to the kind of power output the advertising blurb hints at.
Next time I'll start with non CNC version

I have found the same thing with a bare casting I got to do some devlopment on, They need a fin in the intake port to guide air around the guide and a much smaller port, lots of dead areas in the port, I removed the guide boss and my plastercine fin and losts flow. My next step with it is to move the valve guide centres back to original ,as with the wide centres, my small 44.5 intake valve is shrouded. I don'nt think I will need 46 or 48 valves to reach my target. 

Hi David, when your playing with "Fins" keep in mind the shape of an airplane wing and it's shape in relationship to where the low pressure is. 

I like to use a clay radius that's about twice your diameter ( approx 50% of the diameter of the port ) seems to smooth the iar out some more.

Cheers.

[Udo]

Do not worry about the pushrod weight.
The more boost and/or RPM you turn, the stiffer the pushrod you need.
I can tell you that most of the really high HP turbo cars are running 7/16ths diameter pushrods now.

When i spoke to Terry manton he did mention those,but said the K800 springs that i am using arent enough to control them,more roller cam terority I think?

cheers richie

Richie
I think you need some lightweight lifters K-800 springs and 160000 psi pushrods . Works up to 9500 rpms 

Udo

[richie]

Do not worry about the pushrod weight.
The more boost and/or RPM you turn, the stiffer the pushrod you need.
I can tell you that most of the really high HP turbo cars are running 7/16ths diameter pushrods now.

When i spoke to Terry manton he did mention those,but said the K800 springs that i am using arent enough to control them,more roller cam terority I think?

cheers richie

Richie
I think you need some lightweight lifters K-800 springs and 160000 psi pushrods . Works up to 9500 rpms 

Udo

Hi Udo,

heres the result of  76gram lifters,k 800 springs set at 260 on the seat and 480lbs on the nose and 190,000psi pushrods[mantons supplied by Jack@ jaycee,no blame here,just werent up to the job]

Maybe on a N/A engine but it didnt work for me

cheers richie

[drgouk]

Not sure why the Slamming on the CNC Comp Elims, Were making some pretty decent power with them here.. Lightly massaged Ex Ports, and a different Valve job. I think those heads are good value.
Flow Benches don't win races ( I Know.. I own one )

Have to agree with JHU - my own flow tests don't come anywhere close to advertised figures 

Turbo situation is a lot different and more forgiving of lower flow/low velocity

IMO, based on cfm per square inch of flow area, Comp Elim CNC is lacking and certainly on n/a engine will deliver less performance than other well developed heads with smaller port csa and higher flow (ie more efficient).

Been working on 46x38 CNC Comp Elims today and found a useful increase in flow and velocity by FILLING the intake port! .... as supplied it's wrong shape and too big.

Not on a mission to knock these heads - just a little disappointed to find they're not capable of getting close to the kind of power output the advertising blurb hints at.
Next time I'll start with non CNC version

I have found the same thing with a bare casting I got to do some devlopment on, They need a fin in the intake port to guide air around the guide and a much smaller port, lots of dead areas in the port, I removed the guide boss and my plastercine fin and losts flow. My next step with it is to move the valve guide centres back to original ,as with the wide centres, my small 44.5 intake valve is shrouded. I don'nt think I will need 46 or 48 valves to reach my target. 

Hi David, when your playing with "Fins" keep in mind the shape of an airplane wing and it's shape in relationship to where the low pressure is. 

I like to use a clay radius that's about twice your diameter ( approx 50% of the diameter of the port ) seems to smooth the iar out some more.

Cheers.

Thanks for the info Darren.

[Udo]

Hi Richie
Never seen this before , on all the turbo engines that i know or have built it works with 160000 psi. May be your springs were to close to coil bind ?
I only use Berg pushrods ,
Udo

[Martin]

Do not worry about the pushrod weight.
The more boost and/or RPM you turn, the stiffer the pushrod you need.
I can tell you that most of the really high HP turbo cars are running 7/16ths diameter pushrods now.

When i spoke to Terry manton he did mention those,but said the K800 springs that i am using arent enough to control them,more roller cam terority I think?

cheers richie

Richie
I think you need some lightweight lifters K-800 springs and 160000 psi pushrods . Works up to 9500 rpms 

Udo

Hi Udo,

heres the result of  76gram lifters,k 800 springs set at 260 on the seat and 480lbs on the nose and 190,000psi pushrods[mantons supplied by Jack@ jaycee,no blame here,just werent up to the job]

Maybe on a N/A engine but it didnt work for me

cheers richie

used to get that with Autocraft dual Tappers, must say ive been impressed with the advice from Manton, and so far never had a problem with them.

[Marty]

Maybe on a N/A engine but it didnt work for me

Exactly 

[richie]

Hi Richie
Never seen this before , on all the turbo engines that i know or have built it works with 160000 psi. May be your springs were to close to coil bind ?
I only use Berg pushrods ,
Udo

Udo,checked that very carefully,i have at least .060thou away from bind so it wasnt that.

Anyway these thicker ones should be good so back to having fun

cheers richie

[nicolas]

all jokes aside, this is all very impressive



but might i suggest a bigger gearbox?

 

[Fonz]

... I will re assemble it and see what difference it makes over the old 2332 I ran for the last few years ...

I'd say 7, maybe 10bhp more maybe? 

What's the odds on it's first shakedown pass being a 10.88 ?  

[richie]

... I will re assemble it and see what difference it makes over the old 2332 I ran for the last few years ...

I'd say 7, maybe 10bhp more maybe? 

What's the odds on it's first shakedown pass being a 10.88 ?  

    nah,9.88s are the thing now

cheers richie

[Germanlkmanx]

Looking real good richie, looking forward to seeing the header pics. I'm about to go down the same route as far as making my own header. Where did that collection of goodies/bends/collector come from?

thanks,
tom.

[Fonz]

... I will re assemble it and see what difference it makes over the old 2332 I ran for the last few years ...

I'd say 7, maybe 10bhp more maybe? 

What's the odds on it's first shakedown pass being a 10.88 ?  

    nah,9.88s are the thing now

 

No doubt helped by getting rid of that useless tea boy that always spent too much time polishing Ghias! 

[richie]

Looking real good richie, looking forward to seeing the header pics. I'm about to go down the same route as far as making my own header. Where did that collection of goodies/bends/collector come from?

thanks,
tom.

All the header parts came from Als headers in Anaheim so proberly not much help to you?

cheers richie

[Germanlkmanx]

Looking real good richie, looking forward to seeing the header pics. I'm about to go down the same route as far as making my own header. Where did that collection of goodies/bends/collector come from?

thanks,
tom.

All the header parts came from Als headers in Anaheim so proberly not much help to you?

cheers richie

Ah, you are correct. It's so expensive trying to buy bends over here! I wish I had my own mandrel bender I really do....

Anyway, Looking forward to hearing this sounding angry Richie!

[TomJ]

[/quote]

When i spoke to Terry manton he did mention those,but said the K800 springs that i am using arent enough to control them,more roller cam terority I think?

cheers richie
[/quote]

I've got some lovely triples lying around Richie, around 700lb on the nose... Ha,ha..

Looking good mate, look forward to popping over there and a little drive down to Denny's for a breakfast... good luck firing her up and gauging how much fuel to give that monster!!

Cheers

TomJ 

[richie]

Well as the engine bay is empty at the moment i took time to trim for the needed clearance to fit this in,still needs a little tidying but it now fits and i can get the valve covers off which was a small problem before

Will try put some pics up tommorow   

cheers richie

[Jim Smith]

Looking real good richie, looking forward to seeing the header pics. I'm about to go down the same route as far as making my own header. Where did that collection of goodies/bends/collector come from?

thanks,
tom.

All the header parts came from Als headers in Anaheim so proberly not much help to you?

cheers richie

Ah, you are correct. It's so expensive trying to buy bends over here! I wish I had my own mandrel bender I really do....

Anyway, Looking forward to hearing this sounding angry Richie


  Not sure if this will be of any help to you??    http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tube-Bending-Fabrications
I have just taken delivery of a nice big box of bends from these people, good service and good quality.

Jim.

[richie]

Got the cylinder tins to fit better and the manifolds to fit ,valve covers come of just,got to finish the exhaust next and then cn fire it up

[tikimadness]

Wow that indeed is a wide engine.No fun getting it out of the car

Michael

[Martin Greaves]

Your never going to get your oil cooler to work with it like that.

[Lee.C]

Cool pic's buddy - just wondering what is that "jacket" round the bell housing 

[JS]

To reduce the number of high velocity flying parts when the box breaks? 

[Martin Greaves]

To reduce the number of high velocity flying parts when the box breaks? 

 

[Lee.C]

To reduce the number of high velocity flying parts when the box breaks? 

I thought thats what it was

[ESH]

Should have found a wider car. 

[Neil Davies]

Cool pic's buddy - just wondering what is that "jacket" round the bell housing 

MSA regulations require an SFI-approved scattershield/jacket around the bellhousing of any supercharged, turbocharged or nitrous'd car for racing. It can be a problem on stuff with automatic gearboxes (big V8 nonsense) as there is no input shaft to locate into the clutch/flywheel/crank, so if the flywheel/flexplate breaks free it comes out through the bellhousing, and on front engined cars your feet try to stop it going through the bodywork... Unfortunately, VWs now have to comply to the same rules, even though I've never seen or heard of a flywheel breaking out of the bellhousing! I've seen Paul Bate break a gland nut, and Lee Darby broke the centre out of a T4-style flywheel, but neither resulted in the catastrophe that the MSA expected!

[richie]

The missing link arrived today,the JPM 5 bolt rocker set up


Thankyou Johannes,now I can get the motor in the car and see what it does

cheers richie