Recipe for a mean sounding VW ?

[Jim Ratto]

Since I was 6 years old, I've been into cars. The older I get (I'm 38) the deeper I get into them too. By now you might say I'm obsessed. The timeless lines of a classic design (hello 275GTB/4, Miura, pre '74 911, and yeah the VW Type 1), the scent of hot engines, and exhaust fumes laded with lead, the shove in the back of a light car with too much hp, but for me, more than anything it is the cry and wail of a super tuned motor, under load, that really makes my skin go curdly with goosebumps. I grew up riding around in a two liter Alfetta GT with cat yanked off, and an Ansa rear muffler, and I have really fond memories of Mom warming the car up in the garage before driving us to school. here was a third grade kid with chills running down his spine listening to the growling, garbling, chattering, whizzing twin cam motor coming up to temp.
Anyway, I was thinking the other day, how good a lot of highly tuned VW motors sound, especially when you look at their wheezy humble beginnings. Can anything sound any less aggressive that a stock 40hp Bug? I hate the sound of a stock Beetle, that gasping carb, the rumbly whoosh of the fan and that horrible exhaust note chootling away. I'd rather run no muffler than a stock POS.

Anyway, what is it, in your mind, that makes a high HP Vw sound so good?
Cam timing? Valvetrain? Big venturies? Port work? Sheer displacement? Compression ratio? Header and muffler design?

I can tell you, I've heard plenty of "big" engines, that sounded pretty soft. Slow thottle response, no snap to intake growl, and a lazy exhaust note. And on the other hand, I've heard some pretty threatening sounding 1776's that cracked angrily when the throttles were dropped open.

I'm pretty sure, if you built a 7:1 42 x 37 huge port thing with Engle FK8 and big carbs, it's going to sound weak. Nothing to make any cylinder pressure.

Beyond everything else, I'm sure it all boils down to how well it's tuned in the end. A carb leading another, loose valve tolerances and retarded timing make for a weak motor, and it will sound like it too.

What makes your car scream?

[Carlos De Alba]

Great topic Ratto!!!  I guess you were thinking about it since my email yesterday!!!!

Your car sure sounds mean dude.........!!!!   

[Nico86]

Cam timing? Valvetrain? Big venturies? Port work? Sheer displacement? Compression ratio? Header and muffler design?

I guess it's a bit of everything. I don't know what is a sounding engine, I still have my single port 1300cc (with a phatboy exhaust though).

[Jim Ratto]

I have to say probably the meanest soundng street VW had to be Pete Statt's blue bug, with 2332cc ARPM Super Flow IDA motor.

I've heard stories that Mark Voegtly's green car was one mean sounding machine.

[Sarge]

 I think you've got the recipe down pretty good yourself, Jim!  My lump sounded like a stocker the other day compared to yours.  What about Dave Mason's car.... that's one nasty sounding piece.  I think it's down to who's straight cut's you buy... then compression ratio.

[Tony M]

I have to say probably the meanest soundng street VW had to be Pete Statt's blue bug, with 2332cc ARPM Super Flow IDA motor.

I've heard stories that Mark Voegtly's green car was one mean sounding machine.

I have heard both yours and Pete's - Jim, how many times do i have to tell you - Your car has that same sound comming from it. Pete did let me drive his car    Every thing from start to finish must be done correctly to achive this status.

[peach_]

I love the wine of straight cuts, but i dont know much about engines, so ill just keep shush and read 

[vwcab]

x2 

[benssp]

Turbo Muffler, A long tunnel and 7k RPM!

[Jim Ratto]

I think you've got the recipe down pretty good yourself, Jim!  My lump sounded like a stocker the other day compared to yours.  What about Dave Mason's car.... that's one nasty sounding piece.  I think it's down to who's straight cut's you buy... then compression ratio.

Thanks Sarge. That means a lot coming from you. Yeah i have to say mason's car has "the sound" down pat.

I have to say probably the meanest soundng street VW had to be Pete Statt's blue bug, with 2332cc ARPM Super Flow IDA motor.

I've heard stories that Mark Voegtly's green car was one mean sounding machine.

I have heard both yours and Pete's - Jim, how many times do i have to tell you - Your car has that same sound comming from it. Pete did let me drive his car    Every thing from start to finish must be done correctly to achive this status.

Thanks Tony, and to think he was running quiet packs! So it has to do with more than running a big hemheroid muffler.
I think it is cam overlap and intake area, along with sufficient CR, that makes that glorious sound.

[Donny B.]

The best sounding engine I ever heard was the one in Schwimmer's oval back at Showdown 7.

[cpalma]

I saw a vid somewhere in the other cal-look site i think of Geers' light blue bug leaving a DQ gathering, that sounded mean....think it had some terminators on it w/ a muff and some high compression, probably 11+:1.

Any vids of your mean-sounding bugs revving up? Wud be nice to see and hear em...

[stealth67vw]

I saw a vid somewhere in the other cal-look site i think of Geers' light blue bug leaving a DQ gathering, that sounded mean....think it had some terminators on it w/ a muff and some high compression, probably 11+:1.

Any vids of your mean-sounding bugs revving up? Wud be nice to see and hear em...

You mean this one?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jjSB9RwmGKA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/jjSB9RwmGKA</a>

[SCOTTP]

I was behind Stephan S. for most of the Saturday cruise. When he got into it..... it sounded so sweet!!

[bugnut68]

Two words: zoom tube!

[Eric Justus]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/kr7_rF5is3I" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/kr7_rF5is3I</a>"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/kr7_rF5is3I" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/kr7_rF5is3I</a>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

My personal favorite sounding cars of all time

[Sarge]

The Sloval had the best sounding straight cut's out there PERIOD!!!  You could hear it coming blocks away.

[Rennsurfer]

Anyway, what is it, in your mind, that makes a high HP Vw sound so good?
Cam timing? Valvetrain? Big venturies? Port work? Sheer displacement? Compression ratio? Header and muffler design?

Yes. Well... those and someone like me with a heavy foot.

 

[Jim Ratto]

Anyway, what is it, in your mind, that makes a high HP Vw sound so good?
Cam timing? Valvetrain? Big venturies? Port work? Sheer displacement? Compression ratio? Header and muffler design?

Yes. Well... those and someone like me with a heavy foot.

 

yeah I forgot that key ingredient.

Also light flywheel helps. Nothing sounds worse than a motor that revs up slow, then comes down back in rpm slow.

So what do we think a "good sounding motor" is anyway? Best to define that I guess

Some guys like the deep bassy rumble, some guys like the trebly cry of open stinger. Personally I like a consistent sounding valvetrain at lower rpms (not one clacky valve, and rest quiet... sounds thrashy), and a nervous, bad tempered, urgent idle. You hear that quivery idle (not lumpy) and you know it's an angry motor. I think a good motor running a bbl per cylinder shouldn't have a lumpy idle.
I think a good sounding motor should instantly bark from carbs without a stumble or burble when the throttle is cracked. No snapping up throats or bogging. The valvetrain should almost chirp in response if it revs fast enough. Not just click and clatter. The exhaust should almost bite in its tone, no matter the muffler. I like motors that sound like they're trying to spit the muffler off, like the muffler is holding it back. To me quiet packs have a crisper sound. But the right motor feeding a Magnaflow, once the revs come up on load, it is pretty close to any exotic Italian thing you can see on youtube.
to my ears, stingers sound way too primitive.

Herbert's SSB had a great bark to it, first time I saw that car in person, he flew into Knowlwood's parking lot about sundown night before classic, 1998, and it revved like it had no belt... but it did. Nothing else in the lot that night sounded as wicked as his car.
What Mark's secrets were, I won't know, and you know it's probably best his secrets stay his....  part of his legend.

Valve timing, valve timing, valve timing. I remember how much "better" my single 2bbl 36DRLA sounded once it was feeding a motor with 288 degrees instead a motor with a stock cam. All of the sudden that carb was growling. I was 17 at the time and it was like doing ___________the first time hearing that carb snarl.
Cam advance....    personally, I think it has a lot to do with how my car revs.

 

[Rennsurfer]

Okay, it's settled... you're building my next engine. You had me at bark. How much if I supply the parts? Oh and Sheep's engine must be completed and in his car beforehand. Can't dis a fellow VW/fishing fanatic like that.

[WCB Hitler's Hot Rod]

If only I could cram this motor in my Cal-look. I just got goosebumps! What feels like a shock wave when started and a ballistic whip when unleashed? Watch this...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CGhTYk0z6X4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/CGhTYk0z6X4</a>

[Fastbrit]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/McKRagEpqnk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/McKRagEpqnk</a>
OR, the daddy!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/FIoNRrI9hKA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/FIoNRrI9hKA</a>

[cpalma]

yeah that's the one...thanks. my bad it's not DQ but Nick's, i'm from way out here in the Philippines hehe...Cris

[BeetleBug]

Meanest sounding vw engine I have ever heard is this;

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/gXWz0te48HU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/gXWz0te48HU</a>

[Bewitched666]

Besides cam,carb sound,straight cuts,compression nothing beats a wide open stinger

Like the turbo muffler too

[BeetleBug]

Besides cam,carb sound,straight cuts,compression nothing beats a wide open stinger

Like the turbo muffler too

The little whining from the straight cuts is nothing compared to a HIGH compression, finely tuned engine screaming through a open exchaust system. If you add a aggresive race fuel in the mix then both your ears and eyes will cry - absolutely amazing. You can hear them from a mile away and they are the ones that wakes you up when you are at the races. Not many of them out there but a few - and they save every race day for me.

 

[ESH]

Limiting this to air cooled VW stuff the Geers and Crawford motors sprang to mind pretty quickly when seeing this topic. I remember seeing the Geers car parked up at Sacramento and it looked pretty cool sat there but it was when it fired up and pulled into the burnout box that the whole package came together. I love the sound that car makes, as soon as the motor starts you know it's going to haul. Another car I like the sound of is the Red Baron, that has a sound all of its own too, not sure exactly what it is about that tune but there's something going on in there. On a general street car I'm not sure stingers are so great, I ran one for a couple of months or so and it's pretty much just noise; it's better when you can hear the carbs and the motor. I have one currently but another factor is the header, I'd have to say stainless steel sounds like crap. Next time round I'm going with a ceramic coated mild steel system.

[BeetleBug]

Oh... are we allowed to include other engines? Well, then it is easy - this is the best sounding engine ever, period; (turn the volume up)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dLByHf0rzb4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/dLByHf0rzb4</a>

[javabug]

I've loved cars my entire life, and I really have to say that I have never craved the sound of any engine more than I have the sound of a healthy flat four VW.

Two things that I think are universal with any engine is:

a mechanical valvetrain—they have sound and response that hydraulic lifter stuff doesn't
breathing ability—when the recipe is right and the engine has good lungs, things sound killer

[alex d]

IMHO stingers suck, it's more a noise than a sound if you ask me, , I'd rather hear the induction roar of some 48s!

PS: my dual quiet packs are LOUD (cop magnet!) I have another one to try, I hope it sounds better and is not so noisy