Late Looker (type 4)

[Eddie DVK]

Hy guys, I started on building my engine but got in to a little bit of trouble.
When I dropped the crank in the case, I coudn t align it correct, it jammed a little bit.
Turned out it jams on #2 bearings (the half ones that are in the cases), when I clossed the
case I couldn t turn the crank. (the dowel pins were placed correctly).
When I left the #2 bearings out the crank turns freely in it s bearings.

Did some measurement turns out the bearing saddles aren t aligned properly.
Seems one got a little bit inwards.
The saddles(inside) are smaller then the outside of the #2 bearings.

When I closed the Case(torqued with case studs) with out the bearings, it seems that the case stays open
on the #2 saddles.

The sad part is I brought this case, crank and rods to a respectable typ 4 business in germany to check all of
this so that they could supply me with the correct bearings. So I am a little bit pissed by this.

Did a lot of work on this case, like polishing on the inside for better airflow and some adjustments to make the CSP typ1 kit to fit
and to let the case to look more like a typ 1 case.

As you can see on the pictures there is a big gap on the left side, this is the side where also the saddles of cam bearings are.







The pictures were taken with case closed and torqued.

Does somebody know if this can be fixed, or should I throw this away and get a new case.
Help much appreciated.

Kind regards Edgar

[Jim Ratto]

at my last job, we refused engine core exchanges if the # 2 saddles were "spread" like that.
Meaning they were not good to use for a rebuild.

I am not familiar withthat happening so much to T4 case though! With the strength of the T4 it must have had a hard life.

I think you need a different case.

Sorry 

[John Maher]

Does somebody know if this can be fixed, or should I throw this away and get a new case.

Looks like your crankcase suffered a major oiling issue at the centre main last time it ran.
The huge amount of heat generated can be sufficient to warp the case about the centre main (and trash the crank!).
If you have the original crank and bearings they should show obvious tell-tale signs.

Unfortunately there is no fix. The case is scrap.
Even line-boring won't solve the problem.
If you attempt to reuse the case you'll have chronic oil pressure problems from the off.

Check your next case by placing a straight edge along the case mating faces.
Any daylight above or below the centre main indicates a warped case.
Alternatively torque both case halves together as in the pics and look for gaps.

[Udo]

Hi
I think John is right . This case is only for the junkjard , sorry to say this . A lot of people do not check the whole case before they use it . This center main saddle can not get repaired .

Udo

[Eddie DVK]

Does somebody know if this can be fixed, or should I throw this away and get a new case.

Looks like your crankcase suffered a major oiling issue at the centre main last time it ran.
The huge amount of heat generated can be sufficient to warp the case about the centre main (and trash the crank!).
If you have the original crank and bearings they should show obvious tell-tale signs.

Unfortunately there is no fix. The case is scrap.

Check your next case by placing a straight edge along the case mating faces.
Any daylight above or below the centre main indicates a warped case.
Alternatively torque both case halves together as in the pics and look for gaps.

Bought this case at a swapmeet, 'cause I needed an 'open' case (CU) to fit the CSP typ 1 conversion kit.
Myself I had a CJ ('closed') engine from which I used al of the internal parts.
But the sad part about this is, that I have them(case, crank and rods) checked by a famous typ 4 business,
I would have hoped they would have told me....

Hi
I think John is right . This case is only for the junkjard , sorry to say this . A lot of people do not check the whole case before they use it . This center main saddle can not get repaired .

Udo

Well this is my first major engine build, I know now I have to check al the surfaces, I checked the outher surfaces if they weren t pried open with
screwdrivers, but didn t check the saddle surfaces.
But hey somethimes you have to learn it the hard way.

Need to find a new case then.

Jim, John and Udo thanks for the quick respones.

Kind Regards Edgar

[Stephan32]

Hi Edgar,

Sorry to hear that 


If you need a reliable adress pm me!


Cheers Stephan

[Eddie DVK]

Ok, after some problems I am on it again.
Got me a new used case (thanks Udo).
Started building, everything fits now.
This is the short block.









And Got my heads back from Udo Becker also.
Those are bus heads with now stainless steel 42x36 valves.



Very nice

Also got me a turbo thomas stailess steel header(41mm) looks very cool
some pictures later.

Plan is to have a typ 1 looking engine much like Rasser (on this forum) minus the ida s.

Now fore the long block got some questions.
Have a 316 schleicher cam with solid lifters, using Weber idf 40 carbs.
what kind off comprassion ratio must I use. (I ve been told 9.2 - 1 till 9.5 - 1 is ok) is this correct?
Using 98 octane pumpgas.

Also like to know where the gaps of the pistonrings have to be, had a picture of that but cant find it anymore.
Using light typ 1 pistons(94mm) in typ 4 barrels.

Kind Regards Edgar

[Udo]

I think i set the heads on that comp. up to 9,5  is ok .

Udo

[Rasser]

NICE... more upright converted type4´s on the street

Size ?

[Eddie DVK]

I think i set the heads on that comp. up to 9,5  is ok .

Udo

Ok thanks Udo, will do that.

NICE... more upright converted type4´s on the street

Size ?

thanks Rasser
Yep, we need more of those..
It s a 2.0 liter.
stock but balanced crank, stok rods, typ 1 94mm pistons, 316 schleicher cam, solid lifters, heads 42x36,
40 idf s, hoping 120-130HP....

Kind Regards Edgar
 

[Rasser]

I think i set the heads on that comp. up to 9,5  is ok .

Udo


Sounds similar to mine. Mines also a 2L and with 42-36 heads. I am not familiar with the schleicher cams, how does the 316 convert to in the way "american" camshafts are measured (at zero valve lift)?
Did you have the rods fitted with a 22mm wrist pin bushing, and where did you buy this bushing?

Ok thanks Udo, will do that.

NICE... more upright converted type4´s on the street

Size ?

thanks Rasser
Yep, we need more of those..
It s a 2.0 liter.
stock but balanced crank, stok rods, typ 1 94mm pistons, 316 schleicher cam, solid lifters, heads 42x36,
40 idf s, hoping 120-130HP....

Kind Regards Edgar
 

Sounds similar to mine. Mines also a 2L and with 42-36 heads (porsche 914 2.0). I am not familiar with the schleicher cams, how does the 316 convert to in the way "american" camshafts are measured (at zero valve lift)?
Did you have the rods fitted with a 22mm wrist pin bushing, and where did you buy this bushing?

[Eddie DVK]

I believe the duration is 316 and the lift is 8.50, don t know exactly how this converts to american cams.
You can buy those rods direct (exchange with own rods). so thats wath I did, bought them at BAS in germany.
Hoping that I get the same hp as you, cause yours looks good.
How many max rpm s are you turning with your engine?

Kind regards Edgar

[Udo]

I think i set the heads on that comp. up to 9,5  is ok .

Udo


Sounds similar to mine. Mines also a 2L and with 42-36 heads. I am not familiar with the schleicher cams, how does the 316 convert to in the way "american" camshafts are measured (at zero valve lift)?
Did you have the rods fitted with a 22mm wrist pin bushing, and where did you buy this bushing?

Ok thanks Udo, will do that.

NICE... more upright converted type4´s on the street

Size ?

thanks Rasser
Yep, we need more of those..
It s a 2.0 liter.
stock but balanced crank, stok rods, typ 1 94mm pistons, 316 schleicher cam, solid lifters, heads 42x36,
40 idf s, hoping 120-130HP....

Kind Regards Edgar
 

Sounds similar to mine. Mines also a 2L and with 42-36 heads (porsche 914 2.0). I am not familiar with the schleicher cams, how does the 316 convert to in the way "american" camshafts are measured (at zero valve lift)?
Did you have the rods fitted with a 22mm wrist pin bushing, and where did you buy this bushing?

The Schleicher cams are not good for Hp . Better use an american like Pauter , they make more torque and horses . Schleicher cams are messured at 0,33 mm lift at lobe

Udo

[Rasser]

I have max. power at 5600-5700 rpm - 136hp/185nm

I use the webcam 494 camshaft - a really good street-cam with lots of usefull power from 2400-6000. Works really good with the tall gearing i use (3.88x0.89x 205/70-15)

[Eddie DVK]

The Schleicher cams are not good for Hp . Better use an american like Pauter , they make more torque and horses . Schleicher cams are messured at 0,33 mm lift at lobe

Udo

Hm if I knew that before, would have gone with those cams,
but Udo do you know what kind of HP this set up would make?

[Udo]

The Schleicher cams make different hp . May be from 130-150 . I do not know why , i think they have different grindings . I told you about that .

Udo

[Eddie DVK]

Ok resumed building again (instead of going to DDD#7, otherwise it will never get finished), put the heads on, compression set at 1 : 9.5.
Try to put the rockers on and place the pushrods, but found out the pushrods are about 1 cm - 1.5 cm to short.
I swiched the hydraulic cam(and lifters) for a solid cam(and lifters) and I try to reuse the CU (hydraulic chrom moly ones) pushrods.
So is it correct that when you switch from hydraulic lifters to solid lifters that you need other puschrods, or did I do something wrong?

PS new photos will be placed later.

Kind regards Edgar

[Udo]

I would use the original Typ4 alu pushrods . they will fit , may be you must cut them 1-2 mm . Or put shims under the rocker shaft block

Udo

[Eddie DVK]

Ok thanks Udo,
I will try that, only have chromoly ones, so have to buy new ones.

Kind Regards Edgar

[Doktor]

It s a 2.0 liter.
stock but balanced crank, stok rods, typ 1 94mm pistons, 316 schleicher cam, solid lifters, heads 42x36,
40 idf s, hoping 120-130HP....

Kind Regards Edgar
 

Im not into Type 4 engines, but isn't that cam a little big with that non-cw crank ?
316 degrees is a big cam in a Type 1 world...


@ Udo: I have seen some of your engines in a "Tuning Luftgekhulte Volkswagen" book and on an example 1776ccm engine it is written stock 69mm crank...is it a stock ballanced crank or a cw-crank ?
Im asking because it is built with Pauter 296 degrees cam that is simmilar to Engle W120, right ?

[Eddie DVK]

Ok is been a while but was waiting on some parts.
So here are some promised pictures.
Mockup outside car



TurboThomas header


Mockup inside car




And some Alu pushrods I got trough the mail

With the new pushrod I can finaly start finishing the engine

Keep you guys posted

Kind Regards

[Sander/DVK]

Nice going Edgar. So it will not take so much time when you can drive the car with new engine.

Cheer,
Sander

[181]

very, very very nice! I like the "patina" on the engine tins.

[JeePee/DVK]

Eddie,nice work

[Eddie DVK]

Nice going Edgar. So it will not take so much time when you can drive the car with new engine.

Cheer,
Sander

Thanks, been waiting for those pushrods for a while now, but everything is there to finish it.
so next season would be possible now.

very, very very nice! I like the "patina" on the engine tins.

hm patina, I don t know, I think they were just my dirty fingers..

Eddie,nice work

Thanks JeePee finaly found me some time to work on it.

Kind regards Edgar

[FDK/mrpedrini]

Engine is looking HARD Eddy!!!     i'll have my eyes on this topic good luck with the further assembly....Grts D

[Harry/FDK]

Very Cool work Ed !, How is the fitting of the CSP cylinder shrouds ?

(PS, i'm using DTM upright cooling)

[Udo]

Hi Eddy

With your cam it is no problem to use the original pushrods , may be they must get shortend 2 mm .
What exaust is this , A1 ?

Udo

[Eddie DVK]

Very Cool work Ed !, How is the fitting of the CSP cylinder shrouds ?

(PS, i'm using DTM upright cooling)

He Harry how are you doing.....hope to see you and the guys(MrPedrini and Ray) soon..
Well the fitting is a bit of a hell, because nothing seems to fit proper, have to grind almost everything to make it fit how I like it.
I now you re using a DTM, but sorry, I never liked the look of it, so tried the CSP conversion.

Hi Eddy

With your cam it is no problem to use the original pushrods , may be they must get shortend 2 mm .
What exaust is this , A1 ?

Udo

I know Udo, you told me but kind off hard to get, so ordered a few from overseas, forgot to ask you, if you had one, but these I can cut to lenght myself, so they will fit ok.
The header is a stainless steel one from TurboThomas from England, It s a 41mm header, took a little bit long to get, but I am pleased with the end result.

Kind Regards Edgar

[Eddie DVK]

Ok finaly got some work done.

The pushrods are finaly done.


They are in now and seem to work properly.

I am confused on what to set valvegap on these aluminuim pushrods, I saw and hear a lot of different figures...
some saying 0mm (zero) and some say 0.10mm.
Please could somebody point me into the right direction.

And another small question which sparkplugs do people use in typ 4 engines.
(had a answer from rasser what he is using in his typ 4 ''NGK B7 (can´t remember if it is ES or HS style...)'') 

Thanks in advance

Kind regards Edgar