Late Looker (type 4)

[Eddie DVK]

Engine is out,
So ready to start building the new engine.  

[Eddie DVK]

Ok need a bit of help.
Some say de CB650 valve springs are a bit of an overkill for my cam/light cam followers, and that I can get away with
single springs with that cam and light parts. (TP type 1 lifters, Webcam 86b)

So would this be a n option than?
https://www.csp-shop.com/en/engine/valve-springs-109-623-010jpm-24961a.html

Other question can I get the spring pressure up by shimming the valve springs to the correct spec for the cam?
Help appreciated.

Reegards Edgar

[Garrick Clark]

.

[Eddie DVK]

Ok got Al the parts now.
Went with JPM single springs + Titanium retainers, on advise of Johannes.
Busy with cleaning of the case.
The case / heads are ready to be machined.
Using the heads of 2.0 engine, only 10.000 km on them.
Valves were not leaking... Never cc the heads, did this now they are off...
They are all 45cc just what I was told when I had them built for the 2.0 engine.

[Eddie DVK]

Had some time to go to my friend, he has a ships engine repair shop.
Made the test deutz cylinder to the size I wanted.
1 step closer to building.

PS I now this is not the correct way to cut the cylinders, but this is the test cylinder.

[Eddie DVK]

After some info and advice, I am going for heads 113mm and case 107mm (106mm).
So Cylinders will be 0.2mm less.
Removed a little bit to much from bottom... but this is the test Cylinder.
And haven t decided yet if I go 107 or 106mm..

[Eddie DVK]

Ok a small question, on a carb engine when do you need a bigger fuel line, when is the original 6mm fuel line not sufficient anymore?
Is there some rule of thumb?

I know for Injection you need a bigger one plus return.

Regards Edgar

[Garrick Clark]

.

[Eddie DVK]

Ok will try to route a bigger Fuel line from the front to the back...

The parts are out for machining, but I don t think I will have the new engine ready before season start,
so decided to put my old engine together, with some standard CU heads.
Had some extra stuff laying around like H beams.
Crank rotates smooth in the case, camshaft also..

[Eddie DVK]

Drops right in the old engine, little cleaning, new bearings, new rods...

[Eddie DVK]

Ok lapping the valves… for the old 2.0 engine  will be running this season..
If you look close, I also lapped the cilinders on this one…

Finally can pick up my case and heads for the 2.4 engine... but don t think it will be ready this season..

It is in, ready to fire up this weekend.
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[Eddie DVK]

Am curieus what this will bring. A little modifications to my old 2.0 engine.
Using the heads for the 2.4 engine build.

Throw in some parts I had lying around.
Lighter H beam Rods, standard CU heads 39 x 33mm valves, new valve guides, a few new valve seats, lapped the valves and valve seats,
flycut the head 1 mm, deck height on old engine was to big... so set deck height now at 1.25mm this will bump compression to 1 : 9.7 now.

Fingers crossed it will fire up.

[Garrick Clark]

9.7.1. looking good.

[Eddie DVK]

9.7.1. looking good.

Thanks, hope it will do the trick

[Eddie DVK]

It s in and has oil pressure
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
and alive and no strange sounds..

[richie]

It s in and has oil pressure
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
and alive and no strange sounds..

I bet it makes some noise with no muffler on it   Nice one for getting it finished, now you can enjoy it for summer

[brewsy]

Had some time to go to my friend, he has a ships engine repair shop.
Made the test deutz cylinder to the size I wanted.
1 step closer to building.

PS I now this is not the correct way to cut the cylinders, but this is the test cylinder.

Hi Eddie,
Would you be able to explain whats wrong with your method and what the 'correct' method is??

Thanks
Marc

[Eddie DVK]

It s in and has oil pressure
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
and alive and no strange sounds..

I bet it makes some noise with no muffler on it   Nice one for getting it finished, now you can enjoy it for summer

Hahaha well a bit but my shed is just outside of the city... so no harm done 
Yeah well a bit later than expected... but yep... making it ready for the summer..

[Eddie DVK]

Had some time to go to my friend, he has a ships engine repair shop.
Made the test deutz cylinder to the size I wanted.
1 step closer to building.

PS I now this is not the correct way to cut the cylinders, but this is the test cylinder.

Hi Eddie,
Would you be able to explain whats wrong with your method and what the 'correct' method is??

Thanks
Marc

Well if you clamp it like this in the vise of the lathe it leaves marks you can not hone out.
But this being a test cylinder it did not matter.

[brewsy]

Hi Eddie,
Would you be able to explain whats wrong with your method and what the 'correct' method is??

Thanks
Marc

Well if you clamp it like this in the vise of the lathe it leaves marks you can not hone out.
But this being a test cylinder it did not matter.
[/quote]

DOH.
Gotcha

[Eddie DVK]

Ok did some mileage on the engine. (EBI about 800 km trip)
Found out some interesting stuff.

This is the 2.0 engine minus the heads, so same engine as before but with standard CU heads (using the other heads for the 2.4 engine)
So standard 39x33 valves.
Deckheight now 1.25 mm compression stayed the same 9.5/6 static.
First things i noticed it does not like a lot of advance of the distributer, had to turn it down from 31 to 28degrees..
You could feel it pinging on high RPM s.

I use Porsche swivel feet….. damn those are hard to adjust...for some reason it is difficult to put the feeler gauge between the valves
and the swivel feet because of constant moving of the 'head'... but ok..
Did a few 100 km then adjusted them to 0.10 mm … well for some reason the engine does not like this…
not pulling strong anymore…. feels very lazy.. so did put the back to 0.15 and power was back....
A bit strange for me that this small adjustment had so much influence..
Using alu pushrods… so thinking they don t like tight valve clearance on type 4 engines.

And how did it pull, well it is pulling as hard as the old engine in low RPMs, only lacking the power above 5200 rpms, than the power is gone..
It is moving to little air I think with the small valves to keep pulling till 6500 like with the old heads..

It is a very nice bottom pulling engine now...
Ooh it is also a lot quitter..  

Enjoying it this summer, building the other for next year...

[Eddie DVK]

Ok still playing around with adjustments.
Placed some bigger vent, now 30, to incorporate with the main and air jets.
But I have a question for the type 4 guys, is there a limit to the revs a standard CU head (39x33 valves) can turn?
Because after all adjustments it won t rev above 5200 RPM s.

Need some info on this
Thanks in regards

[Garrick Clark]

30 vents are small
The 33 exhaust valves are also small. If your on oval exhaust ports they also will only flow so much air and are a known restriction. The rectangle exhaust port on later heads are a lot bigger and are less of a restriction.
The inlet ports flow better than the exhaust ports on standard heads, they don't match each other for flow
I use 36mm vents in the 40 dells and spent weeks opening up the oval exhaust ports and thinning out the inner diameter of the header to match the new size of the ports.

[Eddie DVK]

Thanks for the info,

The CU have the rectangle exhaust ports.
This is an in between engine, so tried if certain parts work... But the standard valve head is to restrictive for a performance cam and specs it looks.
Pulls reals strong down low, revs real fast, and drives really easy... but there is apparently a max on the revs...  Good to know..

Yeah tried 34 vents, but they gave a dip when you floored it... does not react well to the throttle pedal. (could also be because of the big main and air jets )
So went back to 30.

Trying stuff and learning stuff 

[Garrick Clark]

I would leave the 34 vents in and work on the Jetting. 30mm is 9mm smaller than the inlet It should be in the 4-5 mm smaller range which is 34mm.

[Eddie DVK]

I would leave the 34 vents in and work on the Jetting. 30mm is 9mm smaller than the inlet It should be in the 4-5 mm smaller range which is 34mm.

Thanks, ok will have a look at that... still learning what mods will have a certain effect on things..

[nicolas]

I would leave the 34 vents in and work on the Jetting. 30mm is 9mm smaller than the inlet It should be in the 4-5 mm smaller range which is 34mm.

not that I know what a type4 needs but on a type1 this sounds correct.
from what I know smaller vents are 'easier' to make power with and less stumble, but limiting in higher RPMs. a bigger vent in this case should be made to work and yes you will have to play a bit to get the bottom response back. good luck.

[Garrick Clark]

36mm vents are the biggest made for dell 40s. I'm gunna explore the size limits of vents in a 40 by enlarging the 36's I use now. will go to 38 and see what happens. with the 42 inlets 38 vents should be correct .

[Garrick Clark]

Thing is with big vents is that it makes a lean hole between the idle jet and the main jet. Big vents lessen the signal to switch the mains on. You need to fill that lean hole with bigger AIR jets. Possibly emulsion tube changes too.
An AFR gauge is a useful tool, it will show you when the idles finish. The digital numbers will go up in value. 12,13,14,15 and so on. when the mains come in you will see 15,14,13,12 etc.

Also something I realised with a type 4 is that if you want a low cc type 4 to be like the same cc type 1 in terms of power/fun its not going to happen, I was disappointed with my 1911 to be fair and did a lot of head work etc,it was like a slug, the 1914cc type 1's  in the past were a lot better. like night and day.
For me putting a turbo on it was the best way to get a hot VW.

[Eddie DVK]

Ok, back working on the engine.
Was just comparing cases (type 4) and saw a difference I never noticed before.
The ally stops (for the oil channels) that are in the cases on the left case halfs are different from each other, something I never saw before.
On the right is an EA case from a 914 1.7 engine, on the left is an AN case, which is the same as my other cases I used/have CU, CJ and GB case.
The right case has one oil stop (hole) less then the left one.

Any reason for this??