anyone know who's old DKP car this is?

[Zach Gomulka]

Sorry, but I must retort!

This topic has been addressed on this forum many times in the past, I think that is why Russell's first sentence read like it did.

I wish I could have been part of the scene back then, but I wasn't even born until '81. I completely grasp the idea that the club is an elite and cherished organization (and I would personally adhere to your decal protocol if I was a club member), but you can't force anyone to do anything, so why make a fuss about something that you have no control over?

[Gary Justus]

I  agree..........
AND...I'm sorry,,but
Let's move forward.........DKK FRED...NO, I'm not kidding

[Rennsurfer]

Now THIS is rather fitting... proper club stickers on a car belonging to one of it's original members.



It just doesn't get much better.

Sorry, but I must retort!

Be not sorry... let the retort(s) begin.

This topic has been addressed on this forum many times in the past, I think that is why Russell's first sentence read like it did.

Um, okay. But being a car collector doesn't exempt one from this. If that's the case, then... BAM! I'm now a car collector and I want all of the old Cal Look car club stickers. Oh and I want my old P.C.A. stickers back, too. (sarcasm alert) This is too funny... 'cause if I had the money to spare, I'd buy that beige car. Remove the D.K.P. sticker on the back window (and hood badge or any other club markings), change the wheels to something that I prefer, and simply enjoy the car. Even if I wanted to try to get in D.K.P. with that car, I'd STILL remove the stickers and go through the process that the club's protocol has. Then, if I got in... I'd put the quarter window stickers on.

I wish I could have been part of the scene back then, but I wasn't even born until '81. I completely grasp the idea that the club is an elite and cherished organization (and I would personally adhere to your decal protocol if I was a club member), but you can't force anyone to do anything, so why make a fuss about something that you have no control over?

Glad to hear that you feel the same way of honoring a car club. But fuss? Not me... merely pointing out proper etiquette. I have no control over anything but my life. Agreed. Just having a friendly conversation about something that's been laid down many years ago. That's all. To anyone that disagrees, some food for thought: The Panzers paid for the stickers. They are issued to the member. Therefore, they are property of the club. Hope that helps.

Let's move forward.........DKK FRED...NO, I'm not kidding

HAHA!! Good to know.

[Wünderwolff]

Even though it might have been discussed over and over again, I think this is a valid discussion, and it sure doesn't belong in Off Topic. For many this is what Cal-Look is about, the clubs and in particular the cars they built. We all want to learn and look back to cruising the boulevard or to racing at OCIR but this sticker thing is as much part of that era as anything else.

I agree with Mark that by joining the club, that elite, you bind yourself to the rules. If one of the rules states you only display club emblems on your car when you belong to the club (and as long as it stays your car) and even only as long as your car exemplifies what the club is all about (crash your car, remove stickers as long as it isn't fixed), then you have to live by that rule. Or find a club with nicer easier going people 

I used to belong to a club that loosely followed the rules as set out by the original cal-look clubs, but stress was not put too much on those rules as not to offend some of the members who were into different things (not only cars, but also shows and they way to represent the club). I'm guilty of selling a car without removing the cub decals, and still feel guilty. However, decals have been handed out by many members and to many people, so to other members it wasn't that big a deal. But it should.

I finally quit the club this year, as it didn't represent the elan I was looking for, the camradery was not all there, we had no way of moving forward. I had not yet used the new-made stickers, and never will (I will keep them for memories sake though). As soon as I use my car this year the old sticker that is still in the window will go.

I do this both for respect for the club and as because I myself want to show I no longer belong to that club.

As for what Richie says, that is partly true, he is keeping the heritage alive. On the other hand he's cashing in on something he doesn't belong to. I do not know all the stories of the cars he bought. I would say, if he unearths a car that has been long forgotten, still sporting the Club decals, then he's a hsitorian,he could (should) opt to keep those on. He would be stupid not to. If however he buys the car from a standing DKP member (or a member of old) that seller has the duty to remove the stickers, and Richie should then not sulk on that as he's now a collector/investor, those are the rules.

[Russell]

Guys

Im okay with free speach, so im easy with all your views in fact i respect them all as we all have different views which is healthy.

Quote: Dr Jeckill: On the other hand he's cashing in on something he doesn't belong to !!!! Not sure how i can be cashing on this as i have made an investment into the scene to keep these cars alive and as they were and without change in order that in future years we can look back and say wow look how it was done then. Anyway they are for my personnel enjoyment but am very happy to share with like minded people....

For example last year was the first time i met DKK Fred, great Guy great Cars and totally respect his views thats why the quality VW car clubs are quality because of people like him, so when im at classic this year im sure he will be first to let me have a drive of his car  and when he sells it to me im sure i will get the stickers, jacket, tee shirt, hat, flag, badge, tatoo he has also.....

You havent seen me selling a car that says EX DKP or Ex anything, if i did ever sell any or part of my collection it would be on back of a few rules and i would like to think that this would be respected

[Wünderwolff]

Hello Russel,

No disrespect, didn't mean it the way it might sound  I guess you're indeed into it for the personal satisfaction not the money. But like I said, once you straight out buy a built car instead of unearth it, you're entering the realm of collector/investor instead of that of Archeologist. As if you were to buy a Van Gogh  , you can't honestly tell me you buy it for the art, you do it for the value it represents 

In short, if the rules say take of stickers before you sell the car, you should just do that (if you're a member). And if you buy the car you shouldn't push the guy selling it to keep the stickers on, they loose their value once sold anyway (I heard they turn black after some time not being in the proximity of a real member )

I once read about the guy returning one of the DKP badges to the DKP (was on here I believe), must be a very tough decision so even more the absolute right thing to do. Karma must come his way every day now.

Ciao,
Tim

[Sarge]

Having been in DKP for some time, this topic has been talked about considerably.  What it boils down to is really quite simple:  we ALL agree that it is the MEMBER'S RESPONSIBILITY to remove club decals when that member sells his car.  Even after having these discussions and agreements, that responsibility is oftentimes bypassed for some "reason" (money) which is what really galls us as a club. 

[Fastbrit]

Having been in DKP for some time, this topic has been talked about considerably.  What it boils down to is really quite simple:  we ALL agree that it is the MEMBER'S RESPONSIBILITY to remove club decals when that member sells his car.  Even after having these discussions and agreements, that responsibility is oftentimes bypassed for some "reason" (money) which is what really galls us as a club. 

I thought you were still a prospect! Sheesh, they let anyone in these days...

[Rennsurfer]

For example last year was the first time i met DKK Fred, great Guy great Cars and totally respect his views thats why the quality VW car clubs are quality because of people like him, so when im at classic this year im sure he will be first to let me have a drive of his car  and when he sells it to me im sure i will get the stickers, jacket, tee shirt, hat, flag, badge, tatoo he has also.....

HAHA!! Russell, I'm surprised... I didn't think that you fancied stock cars.

 

See ya, again, at The Classic.

[Zach Gomulka]

Having been in DKP for some time, this topic has been talked about considerably.  What it boils down to is really quite simple:  we ALL agree that it is the MEMBER'S RESPONSIBILITY to remove club decals when that member sells his car.  Even after having these discussions and agreements, that responsibility is oftentimes bypassed for some "reason" (money) which is what really galls us as a club. 

*APPLAUSE*

[richie]

It does say NO GIRLS!!!, though  

But Sarge surely thats not true,there was a girl in DKP[yes 1] wasnt there? i have seen the  members list from that time

 

cheers richhie

[richie]

But to give my point of view,the club requires you to remove the stickers in certain circumstances which as a member you should abide by,but if you dont then surely thats a problem to be taken up with the member not the buyer?


 "Bought as seen"


cheers richie

[Jim Ratto]

Having been in DKP for some time, this topic has been talked about considerably.  What it boils down to is really quite simple:  we ALL agree that it is the MEMBER'S RESPONSIBILITY to remove club decals when that member sells his car.  Even after having these discussions and agreements, that responsibility is oftentimes bypassed for some "reason" (money) which is what really galls us as a club. 

best answer here.  /\ Thanks Sarge

I've been watching this unfold, and at first thought not to say anything, but I need to.

When I joined the club in Nov 2006, it was made clear that if I ever lost heart in the scene, and decided to sell my car off, that I would remove the DKP livery from it. Of course I agreed (though I highly doubt I will ever part with my car now.... it will be handed down to my son someday, and even then, the quarter and rear windows will not run the DKP decals, unless he follows the tradition and there still is a DKP in 20 years, and he is an active member). Joining the club is contingent on your agreements you make with the club. I guess the agreements could even be referred to as vows.

In all seriousness, a DKP car that is outside of the club, due to change of ownership (or original owner leaving the club), isn't a DKP car anymore. Decals or not.

What's disappointing is that the legacy of the club has become a money making tool for some with questionable ethics. I won't say any more about that, except how frustrating I know it is for guys that grew up in making the club what it is today (key members that have been pivotal in keeping the club active and alive in the true tradition that has been going since 1965).

the comment about "finding a club with nicer, easier going people".... that doesn't refer truthfully about the DKP. I can tell you that the guys in the club are some of the nicest, easiest going guys I've met since I've been into VW's. Like I've posted before, Sarge and some of the other guys did so much to get me in and make me feel welcome. There's never ever been a cooler group of guys that have all been into the same thing. It's too bad that the image is that the club is uptight. I wouldn't call the club "elitist".... it isn't. It's simply about keeping the tradition of HAVING FUN with well-sought after fast and tasteful VW's alive.


Jim Ratto

[Fastbrit]

Amen, Jim.

Since I had the greatest honour (honor, for our ill-educated cousins) of being voted into the club, I have to say that members of DKP are far from elitist. Damn, they let Carlos in, so what gives, huh? I have never been as drunk as when I've been with other club members (believe me, that takes some doing when drinking American beer…) and saw it as part of an initiation ceremony to prove that I also knew how to have fun, despite being a Brit.

Membership of DKP is the cheapest in the world. You don't have to pay any money. You just need to have attitude – and that's free, but you just have to look inside your soul to find it.

[flatfire]

As already mentioned the members are such nice people, maybe they should amend the rules and allow one Silus the Monk character who would travel the world sorting out the deviants who abuse the name.

No doubt presenting yourself as a hells angel would have serious implications

As far as ''investing'' in historically interesting VWs is concerned  I'm sure its far more for the love of ,more than the financial gain.
If people want to collect and celebrate ex DKP cars maybe the club could issue an alternative decal in exchange for the removal of the original.

[Carlos De Alba]

Having been in DKP for some time, this topic has been talked about considerably.  What it boils down to is really quite simple:  we ALL agree that it is the MEMBER'S RESPONSIBILITY to remove club decals when that member sells his car.  Even after having these discussions and agreements, that responsibility is oftentimes bypassed for some "reason" (money) which is what really galls us as a club. 

best answer here.  /\ Thanks Sarge

I've been watching this unfold, and at first thought not to say anything, but I need to.

When I joined the club in Nov 2006, it was made clear that if I ever lost heart in the scene, and decided to sell my car off, that I would remove the DKP livery from it. Of course I agreed (though I highly doubt I will ever part with my car now.... it will be handed down to my son someday, and even then, the quarter and rear windows will not run the DKP decals, unless he follows the tradition and there still is a DKP in 20 years, and he is an active member). Joining the club is contingent on your agreements you make with the club. I guess the agreements could even be referred to as vows.

In all seriousness, a DKP car that is outside of the club, due to change of ownership (or original owner leaving the club), isn't a DKP car anymore. Decals or not.

What's disappointing is that the legacy of the club has become a money making tool for some with questionable ethics. I won't say any more about that, except how frustrating I know it is for guys that grew up in making the club what it is today (key members that have been pivotal in keeping the club active and alive in the true tradition that has been going since 1965).

the comment about "finding a club with nicer, easier going people".... that doesn't refer truthfully about the DKP. I can tell you that the guys in the club are some of the nicest, easiest going guys I've met since I've been into VW's. Like I've posted before, Sarge and some of the other guys did so much to get me in and make me feel welcome. There's never ever been a cooler group of guys that have all been into the same thing. It's too bad that the image is that the club is uptight. I wouldn't call the club "elitist".... it isn't. It's simply about keeping the tradition of HAVING FUN with well-sought after fast and tasteful VW's alive.


Jim Ratto

AMEN BROTHER!!!!! 

I agree with you at 100% and I hope the tradition continues 20, 30 yrs from now...........    Now, could you please translate everything you said in Spanish for me???   

Amen, Jim.

Since I had the greatest honour (honor, for our ill-educated cousins) of being voted into the club, I have to say that members of DKP are far from elitist. Damn, they let Carlos in, so what gives, huh? I have never been as drunk as when I've been with other club members (believe me, that takes some doing when drinking American beer…) and saw it as part of an initiation ceremony to prove that I also knew how to have fun, despite being a Brit.

Membership of DKP is the cheapest in the world. You don't have to pay any money. You just need to have attitude – and that's free, but you just have to look inside your soul to find it.

         

[Jim Ratto]

[/quote]

  Now, could you please translate everything you said in Spanish for me???   

[/quote]

YEAH SURE...  corn or flour por favor?

[Wünderwolff]

Or find a club with nicer easier going people 

Hey Ratto, didn't you notice the only smiley in my post  One would almost think of you as uptight, frequented the Brits a bit too much 

[Carlos De Alba]

Ohhh and by the way.......The car doesn't make the person.............the person makes the car........!!!!  And all current DKP members are the nicest people to be around so that makes their cars even better!!!! 

[Fastbrit]

Or find a club with nicer easier going people 

Hey Ratto, didn't you notice the only smiley in my post  One would almost think of you as uptight, frequented the Brits a bit too much 

ouch!

[lofty1971]

So what would be the 'right thing to do' if you had bought this car?

Keep the sticker, peel off the sticker, destroy the sticker, return it if savaleagble, cover it up with something else?

[Russell]

maybe investment is the wrong word and your right it is art.

So if someone unearths a vw from a time gone by is there anything wrong with leaving the stickers on it, as in true arch-e style they end up getting all the bits back together as was anyway.

So i have a DKP1 car and as the DKP1 club doesnt exsist, whom should i give the stickers too ? as anyone in DKP3 would be illegiable to receive these as they were not pert of the committie of DKP1 to return them too, so in short if a chapter of a club doesnt exsist and the sticker/car has outlived the club maybe they should be left to RIP.

Lets look at where they have helped, Dougs Ghia was found with its bonnet badge still on it had that not been there, some young kid would'nt have walked up to the club and told them about it, so this helped return a car to its rightful owner after being stolen all those years ago............

In fact had the badge not been ther i bet it would have painted and lost forever............ so they should be left on like a birth mark 

[SlingShot]

I compare it to a decorated war Veteran.

The car and it's owner fought long and hard for what they believed in, in turn they were shown appreciation and acceptance for what they have achieved. 

Eventually the owner and car part ways.

I feel that it is up to the owner to keep the badge, & stickers or let them live on with the car. If they stay with the car, the car better be up to DKP standards, because it's still Representin.......

[Fiatdude]

Until they start letting in Fiats they are a bunch of elitist

That's my story and I'm sticking with it

[Russell]

Its a car club for fast cars not rusty old fiats ! 

[Rennsurfer]

What's disappointing is that the legacy of the club has become a money making tool for some with questionable ethics. I won't say any more about that, except how frustrating I know it is for guys that grew up in making the club what it is today (key members that have been pivotal in keeping the club active and alive in the true tradition that has been going since 1965).

Amen, brother. That's what I was attempting to convey. Good on ya, Jim!

[Fiatdude]

Its a car club for fast cars not rusty old fiats ! 

You might have to just roll yours up to the line and take a shot Mr. Richie -- -- ugly is always faster -- Blue cars always win

That's my story and I'll ride it home

[bilboa2]

ok, i'll take it a little farther, my bahama blue 65 and don metz 68 vert both have dkp decals.We where both in dkp 2. We know "the love, pride of dkp".If we felt our cars where not dkp material we would of never put decals in. BUT we where never voted in with these cars. ? So, how about x dkp cars.. if never changed in quality/look shouldn't they keep the decals. There are NOT that many..We in dkp2understood, sell the car, scrape the decals.I personally like that there is a dkp 3 logo. I remember talking to mike dumphy, dkp2 prez before roger grago,about dkp 1 members thoughts on dkp2.Major opinion differences, Could not stop us,most said,wish us the best, remember the standards etc.i like ratto's thoughts/opinions. it's also about the dedication, personality of the member. Dkp 3 members have done a top notch job of keeping/understanding the dkp name.PERIOD.They need to be commended.Keep it going,"Quality, not quanity."bill.. p.s. " I'm keeping my decals in...proud to be of dkp blood..

[RhoadsVW]

I will always think of Mike Dumphy as being the president of DRF.  He is the one that signed my membership card in 1973.  Along with Bob Chapman, Treasure.   Dave Rhoads

[bmxnut65]

It is time to get over this.Phil sold the car for personel reasons and removed the hood badge and stickers and that was a long time ago.There are other people who sold there cars and left the stickers on.I don't see anybody making a big deal about that.DKP is a very close group friends who have the same attitudes about VW's.Lets move on about this and bitch about something else.