The 4" Bore Thread

[Diederick/DVK]

This thread makes me regret I sold my DJ code wasserboxer case half a year ago. It was just lying around in the garage with the idea of using it one day for a LARGE engine. But alright, carry on ;-)

[ugly duckling]

did somebody say light wight like balsa wood. oooh ahhhh. have to give them a try.will see what happens.UD .

[John Rayburn]

Looks like you're building a five cylinder, Jeff. Cool!

[Udo]

Isn't there 2 different H2o Cases? If so, is one better than the other?

Yes , the older ones - 85 have bearings like Typ1 except the thrust bearing (Type4 with 21mm ) .The new ones have smaller bearings .

Udo

[Sander/DVK]

Nice barrels Jeff. Are those from aluminium?

[A-C]

http://www.lnengineering.com/type1.html

Very cheap 

[Sander/DVK]

Ouch   
And than you still have no 4" bore

What brand are you normally using barrels from? AA performance? I read sometimes people use barrels from Deutz, but what pistons do you use then?
I know that 4 inch is a usual size for old V8 engine's.

[A-C]

Isn't there 2 different H2o Cases? If so, is one better than the other?

Yes , the older ones - 85 have bearings like Typ1 except the thrust bearing (Type4 with 21mm ) .The new ones have smaller bearings .

Udo

I have 86-> bearings are T-1 and WBX crank is 86/chevy, easiest mark is last bolt top of case before flywheel is M10 others are M8

[ugly duckling]

there not LN nickes. are you kidding i cant aford that PRICEY stuff . but thoses aluim nickisel cly were in my price range CHEEEEAP i like it. and if i can get them to work that will be a good thing.if not back to the drawing board.
     ( 3.975 100.97mm ) 101     just a smidge shy of the big boy .  and yes my 108s are the deuts diesil clys again another set that im not out a hole lot of cash. yes i normally use the AAclys have had great succsess. UD .   

[Sander/DVK]

Thanks Jeff !

[dirk.nl]

something for a new project Sander??

[SlingShot]

Isn't there 2 different H2o Cases? If so, is one better than the other?

Yes , the older ones - 85 have bearings like Typ1 except the thrust bearing (Type4 with 21mm ) .The new ones have smaller bearings .

Udo

How do you tell without splitting the case?

[Sander/DVK]

something for a new project Sander??

Not yet Dirk, something for later, when I'm a big boy
But I have a couple of years now a wasserboxer case wich I want convert to a oxyboxer.

[m.m.p]

early wbx case No. is 025 101 101

late wbx case No. is 025 101 101 B

its on both sides of the sump

early case has a smoother flash casting on the out side

later cases have alittle more clearence on the inside
there both good just depends on what crank and barring combo you want to use.

[GeirH]

Who knows something about the "outlaws" head from DRD?
I was told they only took 101 mm bore....

[karl h]

as far as i know the differences between early (to 1986) and late wbx case is the main bearing arrangement (first main has sholuders on early case)
there 69 stroke and 76 stroke motors early and late, bore is always 94mm

[58vw]

I keep reading about the 4" motors. and i admire the effort to get a 4" bore in at T1 case. Jeff's 'street' 3ltr motor was awesome!, but isn't it just easier and may be cheeper to get a scat killer case, Autocraft or a Pauter case that already accommodates a 4"bore motor?


maybe I'm missing something, but the above case arnt that expensive are they?


just my thoughts.



Martin.

[/quote


autocraft..$2200.00 pauter.. about the same......but...bitchen stuff indeed...scat? are they available any more new?

[SlingShot]

So the early WBX case is the favorable canadate for a 4.0 bore motor?
When using the wbx setup what is the best crank to run? Wbx crank or a type 1?

[karl h]

i have used only late model cases, they work fine
the stock 76 crank is a strong, heavy piece with very thick cheeks and a type 4 flywheel arrangement (5 bolt), but it has no counterweights. in my opinion if you go to all the difficulties of modifying a wbx case, go for the biggest bore/stroke combo. a type 1 crank can be used with a combo of a 1mm oversized Type1 #1 bearing (with shoulders), by drilling a dowel hole, and the rest wbx main bearings (they are Type 1 ID), you also need a bigger rear main seal to get a match between case and type 1 crank, as well as a sandseal pulley as the wbx case has one from the factory.
as i said before: wbx cases are cheap to get, but after doing all the machinework, the pentroof case from CB is cheaper (i got one for sale)

[RMS Boxer Service]

I have used 2 welded 86 mm stroker WBX cranks in a 4" project and like them a lot. Had a crank/flywheel failure but neither the crank or flywheel can be blamed for the failure (DONT HURRY when assambling an engine ) No bearing issues when using WBX cranks and cases. I like the 5 flywheel bolts much better that the type 1 glad nut.  The cranks I have used both had 5 pins too and latter one of the cranks was also wegdemated to the flywheel.  Both Demello and DPR can make such crank.   The engine is in Big Bang Racing's 62 sedan and it been raced over 40 runs this year and only needed a valve adjustment once and a few carb sync. Had a blast at SCC and we did'nt touch a thing on the engine, just racing

I really think a 4" bore big cc engine is hard to beat and the machine work needed on a WBX case is is not that much. well I like doing machine work so making a WBX case into a aircooled 4" bore engine is pure fun to me.  If all the machine work have to be done in a machine shop the costs could be fairly high.  I spend a lot of time changing the oil system on the WBX case to get more flow and less pressure drop.  JPM heads rocks big time !! They where ready to bolt on, except a small issue with the push rod bores being too small. JPM was aware of the problem and offered to redo the holes for free.  Peter (the owner) felt the CB rods had too small rod bolts and I ordered a set of Pauter rods at Udo  Becker (Thanks a lot for your fast delivery, Udo)  and we all felt safe




/Rolf

[A-C]

So the early WBX case is the favorable canadate for a 4.0 bore motor?
When using the wbx setup what is the best crank to run? Wbx crank or a type 1?

if I have to now build new engine my choice is 90mm Scat flange T1.

[Tomi]

Has anyone used flange crank in wbx case? Either with T1 or all T4 mains.

[Lee.C]

so guys how about a proper sppec/parts list for a 4" bore BIG cc motor 

[71CALRIPPER]

so guys how about a proper sppec/parts list for a 4" bore BIG cc motor 

More street than all out race?

[Lee.C]

so guys how about a proper sppec/parts list for a 4" bore BIG cc motor 

More street than all out race?

Yepp for a BIG street motor   

[GeirH]

It sounds to me, to be some clearance prob.between rods and cam with a 90 stroke. But it has been done in a T-1 , so it's do'able....
I personally don't like long stoke/small rod journal, the crank gets weaker and weaker the longer the stroke/smaller the journals
Maybe the best crank out there is the VW made T-4, 1700-1800 crank.  66 stroke, 55mm journal and T-4 mains....... but then again you have to go T-4. But who wants that???  :-)
With 4" bore the engine will be "big CC"  even with a 82 stroke.....
It all depends of what you want.
I choose to go solid as possible before large as possible...
Just my thoughts.

[181]

so guys how about a proper sppec/parts list for a 4" bore BIG cc motor 

yes please, please:-)

Also what are cooling and exhaust options?

[max2919]

It sounds to me, to be some clearance prob.between rods and cam with a 90 stroke. But it has been done in a T-1 , so it's do'able....
I personally don't like long stoke/small rod journal, the crank gets weaker and weaker the longer the stroke/smaller the journals
Maybe the best crank out there is the VW made T-4, 1700-1800 crank.  66 stroke, 55mm journal and T-4 mains....... but then again you have to go T-4. But who wants that???  :-)
With 4" bore the engine will be "big CC"  even with a 82 stroke.....
It all depends of what you want.
I choose to go solid as possible before large as possible...
Just my thoughts.

I have a 90mm with 5,88" rods in my Oxy.
We will se if the crank cane handle the extra hp the HX50 turbo makes  .

[SlingShot]

I have a 90mm with 5,88" rods in my Oxy.
We will se if the crank cane handle the extra hp the HX50 turbo makes  .

Sweet.

Give it hell, I'm curious.

[ugly duckling]

the 90 2in crank and the 5.880 is an exelent recipe. just as long as have the min of a 411 center or even better all 3 that crank is plenty strong what ever you want to throue at it in the power department.sure you can stay your 70S conservitive recipe thats fine. but there are some that arnt afraid of trying somthing differnt. an old saying and it goes like this . TRY IT YOUL LIKE IT . UD .