The 4" Bore Thread

[kraftwerk]

theres another old saying i like to use...."Nothing worth doing is ever Easy!!"....thats why i wanna have a bash at an Oxy with my early dg motor! If i mill the jackets off, and leave the head stud spacing where it is, what are my options, or do i need to go for the 4" bore stud spacing? if i stick with the standard 69mm dg crank, and go 4", what size motor does that give me? just trying to weigh up my options before taking the plunge! ! obviously, for me, a tight budget is essential, but i am aware these motors can get pricey! give me some options you guys!

cheers
Lee

[Rick Sadler]

what size motor does that give me?


2238 cc

[GeirH]

Well, to my knowledge, it is the std. wasserboxer headstudspacing that is usually used on the 4" bore..
Try to find a 76 stroke crank. And you end up with 2464cc.

[Fiatdude]

http://www.lnengineering.com/type1.html

Very cheap 

I've been talking to the guys at J&E for a new set of 4" bore pistons and they are quoting me under $400us for a set of 4 custom built

[karl h]

who have you been talking to? i tried to contact J&E because i want a set of custom 103mm pistons, but no go
are there other options? summit lists mahle and keith black custom pistons, anybody have experiences with these?

[58vw]

call venolia pistons 562-531-8463

[Fiatdude]

Call SRP (714) 373-5530 talk to Paul at extension 224 they are JE

I lied it cost me about $450 today with tax for the set.

The cost is as follows -- Find a piston design profile that you want ($98 for my 4" small block chevys) then you can start making it into you want == want it 30 over $5 each piston -- want the dome smaller or the dish deeper $5 each etc etc until your done.

I ended up with an off the shelf piston in standard and I'll make my own changes to it if necessary -- -- alot of pistons come standard in 30 45 and 60 over sizes so you might not get hit for that charge.

The hardest part for me was determining what compression height I wanted.

[181]

Guys, any pics of your 4 inch bore engine builds? I´d love to see them!

[richie]

Call SRP (714) 373-5530 talk to Paul at extension 224 they are JE

I lied it cost me about $450 today with tax for the set.

The cost is as follows -- Find a piston design profile that you want ($98 for my 4" small block chevys) then you can start making it into you want == want it 30 over $5 each piston -- want the dome smaller or the dish deeper $5 each etc etc until your done.

I ended up with an off the shelf piston in standard and I'll make my own changes to it if necessary -- -- alot of pistons come standard in 30 45 and 60 over sizes so you might not get hit for that charge.

The hardest part for me was determining what compression height I wanted.

Harold,what wrist pin diameter did you get?


cheers richie,uk

[Fiatdude]

Standard Chevy .927"

I've got Chevy Journals on my Pauter crank -- So I'm using a off the shelf Chevy Corillo rod -- off the shelf 350 chevy piston

-- simplicity and keeps the costs way down

[Zach Gomulka]

There's enough room with the bolts turned the other way 'round?

[richie]

Standard Chevy .927"

I've got Chevy Journals on my Pauter crank -- So I'm using a off the shelf Chevy Corillo rod -- off the shelf 350 chevy piston

-- simplicity and keeps the costs way down

Ok,I figured they werent just going  to make them in VW pin[22mm,there metric cause its german ] for that money,

 but thats not going to fit in a regular VW style case is it?

cheers richie,uk

[Fiatdude]

Standard Chevy .927"

I've got Chevy Journals on my Pauter crank -- So I'm using a off the shelf Chevy Corillo rod -- off the shelf 350 chevy piston

-- simplicity and keeps the costs way down

Ok,I figured they werent just going  to make them in VW pin[22mm,there metric cause its german ] for that money,

 but thats not going to fit in a regular VW style case is it?

cheers richie,uk

well, that's I was trying to say -- they have no problem making those changes to the pistons -- -- just order them with the 22mm pin --  $5 per piston more -- They have a whole division that cataters to the ricers -- -- can't see any problems

And my 2 piece ARPM case is pretty close to being a regular case -- Now if I had one of those 3 piece cases that would be different


Call up Paul and ask him -- -- He seemed more than willing to do anything I wanted -- It was just I wanted them now so I was looking for something they had on the shelf that would work

[Fiatdude]

There's enough room with the bolts turned the other way 'round?

the rods I've got -- -- the bolts don't face that way

[richie]

Standard Chevy .927"

I've got Chevy Journals on my Pauter crank -- So I'm using a off the shelf Chevy Corillo rod -- off the shelf 350 chevy piston

-- simplicity and keeps the costs way down

Ok,I figured they werent just going  to make them in VW pin[22mm,there metric cause its german ] for that money,

 but thats not going to fit in a regular VW style case is it?

cheers richie,uk

well, that's I was trying to say -- they have no problem making those changes to the pistons -- -- just order them with the 22mm pin --  $5 per piston more -- They have a whole division that cataters to the ricers -- -- can't see any problems

And my 2 piece ARPM case is pretty close to being a regular case -- Now if I had one of those 3 piece cases that would be different


Call up Paul and ask him -- -- He seemed more than willing to do anything I wanted -- It was just I wanted them now so I was looking for something they had on the shelf that would work

Harold,if they will do the VW wrist pin size for an extra $5 each then they are a bargain

What rods do you have if the bolts are the same way as VW?

cheers richie,uk

[Fiatdude]

These

[TexasTom]

Some day, some way ... hopefully sooner than I think! 

[ugly duckling]

what are you goona do with all that power there texas tom. at least sombody down south will be feeling the need for speed street texas styel.  . UD .

[TexasTom]

what are you goona do with all that power there texas tom. at least sombody down south will be feeling the need for speed street texas styel.  . UD .

Jeff! Hope you're doin good!
What will I do?
Hopefully burn up some perfectly good tires, blow some minds & poop my pants! (Better get some diapers ...  )
All before the tranny goes!

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

what are you going do with all that power there Texas tom. at least somebody down south will be feeling the need for speed street Texas style.  . UD .

Jeff! Hope you're doin good!
What will I do?
Hopefully burn up some perfectly good tires, blow some minds & poop my pants! (Better get some diapers ...  )
All before the tranny goes!

Hey Tom I can Have Becky bring you some Adult Diapers from her Work LOL And as Far As Speed It will never be Driven  Tom Is A Collector he has more stuff then he can Count an doesn't get much use LMAO at Tom 

[TexasTom]

what are you going do with all that power there Texas tom. at least somebody down south will be feeling the need for speed street Texas style.  . UD .

Jeff! Hope you're doin good!
What will I do?
Hopefully burn up some perfectly good tires, blow some minds & poop my pants! (Better get some diapers ...  )
All before the tranny goes!

Hey Tom I can Have Becky bring you some Adult Diapers from her Work LOL And as Far As Speed It will never be Driven  Tom Is A Collector he has more stuff then he can Count an doesn't get much use LMAO at Tom 

Oh yeah!?
Hey Shoob, How's that Nova running? Drive the Vette lately???
Looks like we've got an old fashioned (cuz of Shoob's age) grudge match goin here!
WATCH OUT! The old guys are gettin goin!
We'll line up the wheel chairs on Sunday, Shoob.
Hope to see ya there!

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

what are you going do with all that power there Texas tom. at least somebody down south will be feeling the need for speed street Texas style.  . UD .

Jeff! Hope you're doin good!
What will I do?
Hopefully burn up some perfectly good tires, blow some minds & poop my pants! (Better get some diapers ...  )
All before the tranny goes!

Hey Tom I can Have Becky bring you some Adult Diapers from her Work LOL And as Far As Speed It will never be Driven  Tom Is A Collector he has more stuff then he can Count an doesn't get much use LMAO at Tom 

Oh yeah!?
Hey Shoob, How's that Nova running? Drive the Vette lately???
Looks like we've got an old fashioned (cuz of Shoob's age) grudge match goin here!
WATCH OUT! The old guys are gettin goin!
We'll line up the wheel chairs on Sunday, Shoob.
Hope to see ya there!

LOL Tom Nova? havent touched it in two years  Corvette? bought it New five years ago it has 1,497 miles on it LOL My Motto is Keep it Covered Out of Site Out Of Mind LMAO   Hey I am up for that Wheelchair Race we can both Rent them And I will Cheat and put someTriflon On the Wheel Bearings and Dust your Ass

[TexasTom]

Don't wanna get off topic, so I'll bring my 4" pistons with me.

I wonder if steeper rod angles can be used in these motors due do greater clearance from the large bore?
A 383 c.i. chevy small block uses a 3.75" stroke (95.25 mm) and often run 5.700" rods ... hmmm
Lower rpms could allow it?

[Rocket Ron]

I know this is a bit out of my league at the moment but it sounds like has Fiat dude found and easier / cheaper way of doing this 4" bore thing.

Am i right or am i missing something.

Will these Chevy rods fit in a high roof aluminum case

 

[smallblockcoupe]

Hello, this is my first post here! I have been watching this thread very carefully and had a few questions... It seems that you can use chevy pistons and rods to keep the costs down but the heads are quite pricey. What about a type 4 head? I know they make them in the right bore and there are exhaust systems for a type 4 in a beetle, is this a possible solution???

Also it seems that he stock 350 chevy rods are 5.7" would that be the correct length?

[Fiatdude]

It goes back to compression height and pin placement in the piston -- The pin placement on my pistons is for a 6" 350 sbc

[smallblockcoupe]

Fiatdude- I never thought about altering the pin height to compensate for a different length rod. Very interesting. What do you think about stock GM rods for a street motor? My thinking is that if they will handle the power and torque of a v8 say 400 or so they should be goodfor the beetle. Does this make sense? Am I crazy? Sorry for all of the questions about this, I work at an autoparts store an was staring at engine parts catalogs all night thinking of a way to make this more affordable. 

Thanks,
Mike.

[richie]

Fiatdude- I never thought about altering the pin height to compensate for a different length rod. Very interesting. What do you think about stock GM rods for a street motor? My thinking is that if they will handle the power and torque of a v8 say 400 or so they should be goodfor the beetle. Does this make sense? Am I crazy? Sorry for all of the questions about this, I work at an autoparts store an was staring at engine parts catalogs all night thinking of a way to make this more affordable. 

Thanks,
Mike.

A rod designed for a 400hp V8 is going to be struggling in a 250hp flat 4   With good rods only costing $250/300 designed for a vw with the correct pin and bolt direction why bother,and no 4inch bore VW engine is going to be cheap

cheers richie,uk

[karl h]

type 4 heads cant be used due to the much bigger cylinder spacing. besides, they bend under load like a banana without extensive mods
i think the cheapest setup is: (besides the type 1 parts for the lower end and the intake/exhaust you need anyway)
hiroof nondrilled case
4" AA clylinders with wisecos (keona has them on the samba alltogether for under 800$)
CB CEs nondrilled (i dont know if you can get them CNC ported, i heard they are fixed to the CNC machine via the type 1 bolt pattern???)
using stock V8 pistons you always have the pin-problem, most of them are .927"
just my opinion

[TexasTom]

no 4inch bore VW engine is going to be cheap

cheers richie,uk
[/quote]

Exactly!
NO HiPo VW motor is cheap compared to a v8!
There's just more of them than us and ... if it were that easy, everybody would be doing it!
Unless you have access to all the equipment and the talent to use it, its gonna cost to have it done, plain and simple. Not to mention the time involved in working it into a drivable package once its done.
That's why we're not all driving 9 sec. street cars!
My hat's off to those who have it, did it, are doing it ..

Awe HELL, as long as you're having fun and its VW powered ... who CARES!