First gear in european AM code IRS gearboxes

[181]

OK, here´s my another gearbox topic and I hope it won´t go wrong again. My question is. Does anybody know for sure what first gear is used in European AM code IRS gearboxes? They were equipped with 4.37 ring and pinion, but were made in the same time with high geared AS and AT code IRS gearboxes. Is there a chance that strong coarse teeth first gear is used so I can use this gearbox as a core?
Thank you.

[ranchoparts]

Yes' The AM Trans has the 3.78 1st Gear Doe's the Gear Carier have a 11 mm bolt on the bottom? If it doe's its a 3.80 1st.

Mike

[Adele AW]

Hey Mike !

[181]

I did not tore down the gearbox at all, that´s why I asked. It will be given complete as a core.

Thank you for good news,

Jan

[besserwisser]

My experience is that most AM gearboxes in Europe have the 3.80 first gear. They were in the 1302 model equiped with the single port 1300 motors. Later models with the dubbelport 1300 had the 3.78 first gear. (very rare). If you want 3.78 youre best bet is the AS or AT with only one removable side.  Could be different in the States though. Most common practise is to take the 3.78 out of the AT box, put the whole package into an AM case and make it into a swingaxle gearbox.

[Bruce]

I've seen an AM single side cover IRS gearbox before.  It will have the stronger 9 tooth mainshaft.
An AM gearbox is an AM gearbox, doesn't matter where the car was sold.

[Felix/DFL]

Exactly!
My AM single side cover (IRS) even had the 3,78 / 9 tooth. And I had 1 crate of beer more cause I betted with my gearboxbuilder

[nicolas]

Exactly!
My AM single side cover (IRS) even had the 3,78 / 9 tooth. And I had 1 crate of beer more cause I betted with my gearboxbuilder

hope it was Belgian beer, then you really won something 

[Rasser]

I have 5-6 AM IRS gearboxes in my storage.

Some are dual cover, but most are single cover. Most of them has 3.78 first, but some has 3.80.

I don´t know about the single/dual cover - but I assume that after 1972 all VW gearboxes had 3.78 first gear?

anyway - you are all right, I have the boxes to prove it ;-)

Rasmus, Denmark

[besserwisser]

You are quite right Bruce, single sided AM gearboxes have 3.78 but what I was getting at was that the double sided AM boxes have the 3.80 thts why I always use those for conversion to sving.

[Rasser]

You are quite right Bruce, single sided AM gearboxes have 3.78 but what I was getting at was that the double sided AM boxes have the 3.80 thts why I always use those for conversion to sving.

Single side cover AM IRS = 3.78 first
Dual cover AM IRS = 3.80 first

Is this "translated" correct?  beacuse I have never compared the dual/single to which gearset was in it (when the snow is melted, and I once againg have access to my shed, then I will go check).

[ranchoparts]

Exactly!
My AM single side cover (IRS) even had the 3,78 / 9 tooth. And I had 1 crate of beer more cause I betted with my gearboxbuilder

hope it was Belgian beer, then you really won something 

Totally Awsome Rad Tea! Haulin Ass! ( Sven-Olof )

[Rasser]

The AM gearbox also came in swingaxle from volkswagen (only Europe I guess??!). My current gearbox is based on a AM swingaxle gearbox. I think it is from the "JEANS" type1.

[181]

I believe that swing 4.37 gearbox you talk abou actually had a code "AB", not "AM"

[Diederick/DVK]

just wondering but what's an AM box like on the motorway?
a 4.37 r&p with a 0.93 4th is probably a bit noisy, or not?

[Bruce]

Single side cover AM IRS = 3.78 first
Dual cover AM IRS = 3.80 first

This is not true.  At the very end of double side cover IRS, all the guts of the SSC were inside.  I've seen an AT double side cover IRS with a 3.88 and a 9 tooth first gear.

[Rasser]

I believe that swing 4.37 gearbox you talk abou actually had a code "AB", not "AM"

   No, it was AM.

[Rasser]

Single side cover AM IRS = 3.78 first
Dual cover AM IRS = 3.80 first

This is not true.  At the very end of double side cover IRS, all the guts of the SSC were inside.  I've seen an AT double side cover IRS with a 3.88 and a 9 tooth first gear.

   ok, Thanks for clearing that up.  But i wrote it as a question, not a statement. You misquoted me, but  i'll live

[Felix/DFL]

Exactly!
My AM single side cover (IRS) even had the 3,78 / 9 tooth. And I had 1 crate of beer more cause I betted with my gearboxbuilder

hope it was Belgian beer, then you really won something 

Gladly no Belgian Zils! I only accept Bier brewed along  the "Reinheitsgebot" 

[Rasser]

Single side cover AM IRS = 3.78 first
Dual cover AM IRS = 3.80 first

This is not true.  At the very end of double side cover IRS, all the guts of the SSC were inside.  I've seen an AT double side cover IRS with a 3.88 and a 9 tooth first gear.

   i think VW messed around with the parts in 71? 72? 73?  Because i have a single cover AT/3.88 with 10 tooth first!!  I had never thought that was a possible combination. . . . .
 

[nicolas]

just wondering but what's an AM box like on the motorway?
a 4.37 r&p with a 0.93 4th is probably a bit noisy, or not?

it works like any other box, but just add 500 rpms compared to a 4.12 (in my car anyway). i have a 4.37 now and it is OK, but weak. lots of people use them and broke them. this short box (standard beetles all had them) got my car to SCC, so it works i guess.

Exactly!
My AM single side cover (IRS) even had the 3,78 / 9 tooth. And I had 1 crate of beer more cause I betted with my gearboxbuilder

hope it was Belgian beer, then you really won something 

Gladly no Belgian Zils! I only accept Bier brewed along  the "Reinheitsgebot" 

didn't know the Rein flows through Belgium  you learn every day. 

[Rasser]

just wondering but what's an AM box like on the motorway?
a 4.37 r&p with a 0.93 4th is probably a bit noisy, or not?

it works like any other box, but just add 500 rpms compared to a 4.12 (in my car anyway). i have a 4.37 now and it is OK, but weak. lots of people use them and broke them. this short box (standard beetles all had them) got my car to SCC, so it works i guess.

Exactly!
My AM single side cover (IRS) even had the 3,78 / 9 tooth. And I had 1 crate of beer more cause I betted with my gearboxbuilder

hope it was Belgian beer, then you really won something 

Gladly no Belgian Zils! I only accept Bier brewed along  the "Reinheitsgebot" 

didn't know the Rein flows through Belgium  you learn every day. 

Actually the late 4.37 trannies are far superior than the earlier 4.12 (as far as 1. & 2. gear goes), because they have the stronger 1. gear. You can´t decide which one is stongest just based on the ring/pinion alone. VW changed the gearsets along the years, around 1972 they changed to the 9 tooth stronger 1. gear. Somewhere along the way they also changed 3. & 4. gear to fine coarse teeth, and obviously they are not as strong as the later 3. & 4. gearsets. And then there are the shift forks, steel or brass - vw really messed around with them!

If you wan´t the strongest "factory" volkswagen tranny, then you have to use 2-3 gearboxes and build them into one.

[nicolas]

Actually the late 4.37 trannies are far superior than the earlier 4.12 (as far as 1. & 2. gear goes), because they have the stronger 1. gear. You can´t decide which one is stongest just based on the ring/pinion alone. VW changed the gearsets along the years, around 1972 they changed to the 9 tooth stronger 1. gear. Somewhere along the way they also changed 3. & 4. gear to fine coarse teeth, and obviously they are not as strong as the later 3. & 4. gearsets. And then there are the shift forks, steel or brass - vw really messed around with them!

If you wan´t the strongest "factory" volkswagen tranny, then you have to use 2-3 gearboxes and build them into one.

thanks for clarifying that. i thought all 4.37's were the same.

[Neil Davies]

If you wan´t the strongest "factory" volkswagen tranny, then you have to use 2-3 gearboxes and build them into one.

Ok, so what should we be looking for? I remember Bruce saying about 002 bus gearsets?

[pupjoint]

how about those IRS box from Type 3s? DC or DD? 9 tooth or 10 tooth mainshafts?

friend found 1 back home for me, he knows i buy up gearbox cores, i am going to check 1 out in the next few days, i am hoping it is a DD 

[Bruce]

If you wan´t the strongest "factory" volkswagen tranny, then you have to use 2-3 gearboxes and build them into one.

Ok, so what should we be looking for? I remember Bruce saying about 002 bus gearsets?

  If you want to build a gearbox with a 9 tooth mainshaft, you can use Bus 002 coarse tooth gears since most Type 1s had fine tooth gears after 1970.  Mike said above, look for the 11mm hex bolt pointing straight down from the gear carrier.  That indicates it does NOT have the 9 tooth mainshaft.  Or look at the part number of the gear carrier.  If it is 311 xxx 173, it does have the 9 tooth first gear.

The late 4.37 Rasser is talking about will have a splined pinion shaft, and an 8 bolt ring gear.  The ones from the early 60s are junk.

[Bruce]

how about those IRS box from Type 3s? DC or DD? 9 tooth or 10 tooth mainshafts?

 i am hoping it is a DD 

I'll bet you like double Ds.
They won't be though.  A DD is pretty rare. (mit ZF)
Before about oct of 72, a DC has a 10 tooth mainshaft.  After Nov 72, it's a 9 tooth.
If the trans number after the DC has 5 or 6 digits with spaces between some, it will likely have a 9 tooth.  If the number has 7 digits, it is a 10 tooth.

Of course any gearbox you find could have been opened up sometime in the last 35 years and it's configuration changed.

[pupjoint]

thanks Bruce. just got home. and had a look at the gearboxes.

the DSC IRS gearbox removed the Australian Spec Type 3 surprisingly is an AH Box. 

AH 3488728.

The other DSC IRS, removed from an Australian Spec 1303 is an AT.

AT 15 0 13

[Bruce]

The other DSC IRS, removed from an Australian Spec 1303 is an AT.

AT 15 0 13

If you look closer, it actually is AT 15 01 3, built on Jan 15, 1973.
It is actually kinda rare.  Built during the transition to SSCs for 1303s.  Convertible to swing axle.

[pupjoint]

The other DSC IRS, removed from an Australian Spec 1303 is an AT.

AT 15 0 13

If you look closer, it actually is AT 15 01 3, built on Jan 15, 1973.
It is actually kinda rare.  Built during the transition to SSCs for 1303s.  Convertible to swing axle.

thanks bruce, one more question without opening the box

what are the chances of the AH box having 002 internals, 9 tooth mainshaft, 4.125 r/p and 0.89 4th?

or i am just better off taking the AT box and dump my 0.89 4th i for from Rancho and source a 4.125 r/p?

he wants a premium price for both box, so i can only take 1 for now.