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lil lizzy
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Topic: lil lizzy (Read 118869 times)
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #30 on:
January 29, 2012, 23:12:08 pm »
hi richie
the car has the same setup as it had when chris ran it
gaz coilovers and stock torsion bars it was ok until i wound them up a fair bit
i will move them back to where thy were last year and try again
when you are over mr sanchezes manor pop in and have a look
Logged
8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
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richie
Hero Member
Posts: 5629
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #31 on:
January 29, 2012, 23:15:21 pm »
Ok,
not a fan of 2 springs on the same corner[torsion bar and coilover] but thats just my opinion,it obviously worked for Chris and for you
Why did you pre load it more,what are you trying to change? thought it always 60footed well before?
Will pm you when we are next coming over that way
cheers Richie
Logged
Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!
Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #32 on:
January 29, 2012, 23:37:56 pm »
i mashed up the drive shafts/fulcrum plates and spider gears by having the arse to soft
but in hindsight i must have done that damage a while back as i had wound them up a bit near the end of last season when it was working well
never mind its all a big learning curve for me and im having a ball with it
chuffed with a pb n/a while backing off a bit though must be more left in it than i thought
Logged
8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
......
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #33 on:
January 29, 2012, 23:45:42 pm »
another vid
http://www.youtube.com/v/rjJruiQjROE
«
Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 23:48:12 pm by dannyboy
»
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8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
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richie
Hero Member
Posts: 5629
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #34 on:
January 30, 2012, 02:18:52 am »
That actually looks better,pressume you turned the bottle on then? it looks like more power keeps the back end planted more
cheers Richie
Logged
Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!
Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #35 on:
January 30, 2012, 18:53:59 pm »
yes i had a 25 shot in it and had backed the coilovers off a bit it was still bouncing all the way but not as bad made for an interesting run
Logged
8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
......
richie
Hero Member
Posts: 5629
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #36 on:
January 30, 2012, 19:26:28 pm »
With them wound up you proberly have more spring than the shocks can handle
cheers Richie
Logged
Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!
Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #37 on:
January 30, 2012, 19:54:22 pm »
cheers for all the feedback mate i have a lot to learn
Logged
8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
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peach_
Hero Member
Posts: 577
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #38 on:
January 31, 2012, 13:45:29 pm »
Quote from: dannyboy on January 29, 2012, 23:37:56 pm
chuffed with a pb n/a
Nos isnt N/A
Logged
1966 java green looker- 2276 Street Machine, with standard gear box@ 14.5 (2013), With Pro Street Box @ 13.5 (2014), still more to come!
SAS RENN-WAGENS
and proud
#CALLOOKDRAGS
Andy Sykes
Hero Member
Posts: 1203
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #39 on:
January 31, 2012, 15:06:46 pm »
Quote from: peach_ on January 31, 2012, 13:45:29 pm
Quote from: dannyboy on January 29, 2012, 23:37:56 pm
chuffed with a pb n/a
Nos isnt N/A
there was no NOS used on the 12.2
Logged
I love the haters they make me famous.
im building this not just putting parts together, they are two totally different things
Your only here once turn it up to 11
peach_
Hero Member
Posts: 577
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #40 on:
January 31, 2012, 15:59:35 pm »
Quote from: fast65 on January 31, 2012, 15:06:46 pm
Quote from: peach_ on January 31, 2012, 13:45:29 pm
Quote from: dannyboy on January 29, 2012, 23:37:56 pm
chuffed with a pb n/a
Nos isnt N/A
there was no NOS used on the 12.2
Nor was there any NOS used on Rich moss's 12.1 in "Little Stink Hound"
Logged
1966 java green looker- 2276 Street Machine, with standard gear box@ 14.5 (2013), With Pro Street Box @ 13.5 (2014), still more to come!
SAS RENN-WAGENS
and proud
#CALLOOKDRAGS
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #41 on:
January 31, 2012, 18:43:58 pm »
Quote from: peach_ on January 31, 2012, 15:59:35 pm
Quote from: fast65 on January 31, 2012, 15:06:46 pm
Quote from: peach_ on January 31, 2012, 13:45:29 pm
Quote from: dannyboy on January 29, 2012, 23:37:56 pm
chuffed with a pb n/a
Nos isnt N/A
there was no NOS used on the 12.2
Nor was there any NOS used on Rich moss's 12.1 in "Little Stink Hound"
there was a fanbelt on lil lizzy
Logged
8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
......
peach_
Hero Member
Posts: 577
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #42 on:
January 31, 2012, 23:45:38 pm »
Quote from: dannyboy on January 31, 2012, 18:43:58 pm
Quote from: peach_ on January 31, 2012, 15:59:35 pm
Quote from: fast65 on January 31, 2012, 15:06:46 pm
Quote from: peach_ on January 31, 2012, 13:45:29 pm
Quote from: dannyboy on January 29, 2012, 23:37:56 pm
chuffed with a pb n/a
Nos isnt N/A
there was no NOS used on the 12.2
Nor was there any NOS used on Rich moss's 12.1 in "Little Stink Hound"
there was a fanbelt on lil lizzy
Bugger! you got me there
Still not N/A thou
Logged
1966 java green looker- 2276 Street Machine, with standard gear box@ 14.5 (2013), With Pro Street Box @ 13.5 (2014), still more to come!
SAS RENN-WAGENS
and proud
#CALLOOKDRAGS
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #43 on:
February 01, 2012, 13:03:14 pm »
peach.
i ran a 12.2 n/a with fanbelt on WITHOUT NITROUS
that is n/a
i also backed off 3/4 track
now get back in your garage and get your car going
Logged
8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
......
peach_
Hero Member
Posts: 577
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #44 on:
February 01, 2012, 20:45:52 pm »
Quote from: dannyboy on February 01, 2012, 13:03:14 pm
peach.
i ran a 12.2 n/a with fanbelt on WITHOUT NITROUS
that is n/a
i also backed off 3/4 track
now get back in your garage and get your car going
ok.............Car looks ace btw
Logged
1966 java green looker- 2276 Street Machine, with standard gear box@ 14.5 (2013), With Pro Street Box @ 13.5 (2014), still more to come!
SAS RENN-WAGENS
and proud
#CALLOOKDRAGS
thejohn66
Full Member
Posts: 192
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #45 on:
February 02, 2012, 00:27:23 am »
Quote from: peach_ on January 31, 2012, 23:45:38 pm
Quote from: dannyboy on January 31, 2012, 18:43:58 pm
Quote from: peach_ on January 31, 2012, 15:59:35 pm
Quote from: fast65 on January 31, 2012, 15:06:46 pm
Quote from: peach_ on January 31, 2012, 13:45:29 pm
Quote from: dannyboy on January 29, 2012, 23:37:56 pm
chuffed with a pb n/a
Nos isnt N/A
there was no NOS used on the 12.2
Nor was there any NOS used on Rich moss's 12.1 in "Little Stink Hound"
there was a fanbelt on lil lizzy
Bugger! you got me there
Still not N/A thou
But did you drive it to the track and back home again
(Ditto, car looks great Danny)
Logged
Bitburg motor boating club member.
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #46 on:
February 02, 2012, 12:36:58 pm »
last time i saw your car it was on a trailor on its way home from the pod
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8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
......
thejohn66
Full Member
Posts: 192
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #47 on:
February 02, 2012, 22:32:52 pm »
Quote from: dannyboy on February 02, 2012, 12:36:58 pm
last time i saw your car it was on a trailor on its way home from the pod
still drove it there
Logged
Bitburg motor boating club member.
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #48 on:
February 29, 2012, 20:18:40 pm »
went on the rolling road yesterday after smoothing the map out it only made 157-159 fwhp and that was a lot more than it made at the begining of the session
it still ran 12.2 last time it was out funny how so few ponies can make the car roll along at a fair old pace
Logged
8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
......
leec
Hero Member
Posts: 2592
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #49 on:
February 29, 2012, 20:27:01 pm »
That figure seems very low for a 2276 that runs low 12's?
Lee
Logged
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #50 on:
February 29, 2012, 20:39:22 pm »
tell me about it
got it weighed today at 690 kgs dunno whats going on but im not complaining
Logged
8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
......
Neil Davies
Hero Member
Posts: 3437
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #51 on:
March 01, 2012, 12:42:39 pm »
that's about right for RWHP, but yes, FWHP seems a bit low.
Logged
2007cc, 48IDFs, street car. 14.45@93 on pump fuel, treads, muffler and fanbelt. October 2017!
leec
Hero Member
Posts: 2592
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #52 on:
March 01, 2012, 13:05:17 pm »
I'm sure someone on here had a calculation forum that would convert power and weight figures to et/mph?
Be interested to see if your figures match up?
Lee
Logged
Shane Noone
Sr. Member
Posts: 267
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #53 on:
March 01, 2012, 13:43:53 pm »
Quote from: dannyboy on February 29, 2012, 20:39:22 pm
tell me about it
got it weighed today at 690 kgs dunno whats going on but im not complaining
Hi Danny, so yes, it is lighter but not super light - can't remember off hand kerb weight of standard bug of that year but have a feeling it's around 750 kgs ? - anyone correct me if that's way off please.
Quote from: leec on March 01, 2012, 13:05:17 pm
I'm sure someone on here had a calculation forum that would convert power and weight figures to et/mph?
Be interested to see if your figures match up?
Lee
Hi Lee, yes I agree with both you and Neil and Danny and I were pondering all this the other day at the Rolling Roda. I have spoke to a few people re the validity of the figures from thoise rollers and they feel the figures are fairly accurate.
Yes if that formula could be found and used it might shed some light on this mystery as to how a car with only 150-16o bhp at flywheel weighing 690 kgs can run 12.2 naturally aspirated
Danny does run with Serpentine pulley and belt system in place and I have heard these rob a fair bit of power so this might up his figures by 20 bhp ? giving us up to 180 at the flywheel ?? Don't forget a lot of people quote flywheel bhp figures achieved off the dyno without cooling or transmission losses that factor in when using a rolling road as Danny did.
I for one was expecting to see between 195 - 210 bhp as a flywheel figure so was equally shocked, knowing how quick this car is.
Logged
richie
Hero Member
Posts: 5629
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #54 on:
March 01, 2012, 21:30:51 pm »
Quote from: dannyboy on February 29, 2012, 20:18:40 pm
went on the rolling road yesterday after smoothing the map out it only made 157-159 fwhp and that was a lot more than it made at the begining of the session
it still ran 12.2 last time it was out funny how so few ponies can make the car roll along at a fair old pace
Danny what did it make last year? it might be time for a freshen up,valve job and maybe valve springs need replacing?you runing same plugs n/a and with gas? what afr was it at on the dyno?timing?
wallace drag calc says 12.36@108mph with that weigth and hp
cheers richie
Logged
Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!
Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #55 on:
March 01, 2012, 22:45:55 pm »
Quote from: richie on March 01, 2012, 21:30:51 pm
Quote from: dannyboy on February 29, 2012, 20:18:40 pm
went on the rolling road yesterday after smoothing the map out it only made 157-159 fwhp and that was a lot more than it made at the begining of the session
it still ran 12.2 last time it was out funny how so few ponies can make the car roll along at a fair old pace
Danny what did it make last year? it might be time for a freshen up,valve job and maybe valve springs need replacing?you runing same plugs n/a and with gas? what afr was it at on the dyno?timing?
wallace drag calc says 12.36@108mph with that weigth and hp
cheers richie
it made 168fwhp on a different dyno the springs are 2 years old cb650 i do run the same plugs all the time as far as the timing afr info id have to ask ian at power engineering
as i dont know
he did say the dyno make approx 10-12 hp less than other dynos so it seems to be making the same power and
the other factor nobody seems to be allowing for is how good the driver is
Logged
8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
......
Neil Davies
Hero Member
Posts: 3437
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #56 on:
March 02, 2012, 10:03:14 am »
Danny, in my old car I had a 2276 (10.5:1 comp, FK87 I think) that I bought off Jay Aldred. He'd run it in the first version of his buggy having had it built by John Maher. IIRC it had 48IDFs or 48DRLAs, and Wisecos to cope with a bit of nitrous when Jay had it, so I bought it without carbs/manifolds and without pistons/barrels. I put a set of Mahles on, my 48IDAs and had it rolling roaded at Raceshack.
This is where the numbers get interesting. Jay had had the motor dyno'd when JMR built it, and it came out as 187.5bhp at the flywheel. Understandably I was quite disappointed with 129bhp at the wheels!
How can my transmission losses be nearly 60bhp?!
However, the purpose of the rolling road for me was to get the car running right and get the engine dialled in as best it could be, and the car ran pretty consistent low 12's (usually low 12.20's to mid 12.teens, best of 12.09) at 105-110mph, which I think is pretty close to where you were without gas?
I had a bit of a think after the first race meet of the year and remembered that the Mustang Dyno that Raceshack used needed a car weight inputting to the software to get all the numbers out. Unfortunately the softwares lowest weight setting that it would cope with was 2000lbs (907kg) and my car with me was 1639lbs (743kg), so a decent amount different. So I did a bit of working out.
First I wanted a correction factor for the weight of the car.
2000lbs/1639lbs=1.22, so that was what I had to work my RWHP figure against.
129bhp x1.22 = 157bhp corrected RWHP. That's more like it!
Then I figured in transmission losses, I'd read that 20% is about right.
157bhp x 1.2 = 188.9 corrected FWHP, close enough to what JMR had tested the motor at on his engine dyno.
Now this might just be a massive thread hijack, but in amongst those ramblings you might find a bit of info that helps you make sense of your numbers!
Logged
2007cc, 48IDFs, street car. 14.45@93 on pump fuel, treads, muffler and fanbelt. October 2017!
richie
Hero Member
Posts: 5629
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #57 on:
March 02, 2012, 10:42:27 am »
Quote from: dannyboy on March 01, 2012, 22:45:55 pm
the other factor nobody seems to be allowing for is how good the driver is
So it should run 9s,but with you driving it runs 12s,is that what you are saying?
Ultimately the timing ticket is all that matters,mph is the best dyno for me
cheers richie
Logged
Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!
Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless
Shane Noone
Sr. Member
Posts: 267
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #58 on:
March 02, 2012, 11:21:22 am »
Quote from: Neil Davies on March 02, 2012, 10:03:14 am
Danny, in my old car I had a 2276 (10.5:1 comp, FK87 I think) that I bought off Jay Aldred. He'd run it in the first version of his buggy having had it built by John Maher. IIRC it had 48IDFs or 48DRLAs, and Wisecos to cope with a bit of nitrous when Jay had it, so I bought it without carbs/manifolds and without pistons/barrels. I put a set of Mahles on, my 48IDAs and had it rolling roaded at Raceshack.
This is where the numbers get interesting. Jay had had the motor dyno'd when JMR built it, and it came out as 187.5bhp at the flywheel. Understandably I was quite disappointed with 129bhp at the wheels!
How can my transmission losses be nearly 60bhp?!
However, the purpose of the rolling road for me was to get the car running right and get the engine dialled in as best it could be, and the car ran pretty consistent low 12's (usually low 12.20's to mid 12.teens, best of 12.09) at 105-110mph, which I think is pretty close to where you were without gas?
I had a bit of a think after the first race meet of the year and remembered that the Mustang Dyno that Raceshack used needed a car weight inputting to the software to get all the numbers out. Unfortunately the softwares lowest weight setting that it would cope with was 2000lbs (907kg) and my car with me was 1639lbs (743kg), so a decent amount different. So I did a bit of working out.
First I wanted a correction factor for the weight of the car.
2000lbs/1639lbs=1.22, so that was what I had to work my RWHP figure against.
129bhp x1.22 = 157bhp corrected RWHP. That's more like it!
Then I figured in transmission losses, I'd read that 20% is about right.
157bhp x 1.2 = 188.9 corrected FWHP, close enough to what JMR had tested the motor at on his engine dyno.
Now this might just be a massive thread hijack, but in amongst those ramblings you might find a bit of info that helps you make sense of your numbers!
Hi Neil,
That info is all very interesting indeed.
Danny's car was recently run up on a Dyno Dynamics Rolling Road which seem to be becoming more popular in the South East anyway, alledgedly for accuracy and consistency.
I agree with you the numbers are intresting and it's nice to have big one's but the real deal is as you say to endure your motor is performing as well as it can be efficiency wise etc.
My old JMR 2276 made 201 bhp at the flywheel no cooling on John's Stuska dyno. Within a week or two I took the bug down to Power Engineering and had it rolling roaded just for comparison and we got 202 bhp calculated at the flywheel with if memory serves 165 bhp at the wheels so nearly a 40 bhp loss through the transmission.
For those racing with cooling attached ( fanbelts ) the anount of power they sap varies and seems relative to the amount of power the engine produces - in general the more the engine makes the higher the losses seen to drive the fan.
On my new motor fitted with a "power pulley" this saps 14 bhp when belt is fitted.
Logged
dannyboy
Hero Member
Posts: 1169
Re: lil lizzy
«
Reply #59 on:
March 02, 2012, 12:55:29 pm »
Quote from: richie on March 02, 2012, 10:42:27 am
Quote from: dannyboy on March 01, 2012, 22:45:55 pm
the other factor nobody seems to be allowing for is how good the driver is
So it should run 9s,but with you driving it runs 12s,is that what you are saying?
Ultimately the timing ticket is all that matters,mph is the best dyno for me
cheers richie
if you want me to get your car into the 8s just let me know
Logged
8.77@156.8mph
O/FF 60
......
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