How much money to run 10s in a street car?now with part2, The evolution to turbo

[tikimadness]

now this is intresting    like the 10 second tought and the blue bottle....this is a thread to follow....

your thread did move the thought nearer the front of my brain,so you are partly responsible for my actions no luxury of a 5 speed here though,I will have to out up with the noise of a short 4th gear

cheers richie

sorry about that...   for me it is the once in a lifetime car with as les limits as possible (for me that is)  , you will go to scc ?? then i drop by for a nitro talk, and a CUP OF TEA

corrected it for you 

Michael

[Lids]

On a serious note this sounds cool.

Do you intend to buy a good body, that doesn't need any work, or something that needs welding, paint etc.  I think there might be as much as 5k between the two.

[richie]

On a serious note this sounds cool.

Do you intend to buy a good body, that doesn't need any work, or something that needs welding, paint etc.  I think there might be as much as 5k between the two.

if its cheap and needs a little welding I will deal with it,but the paintwork wont affect it in anyway,found these 3 gems so far,the top 2 are 3grand each,the last is 1500pounds,unfortunately it doesnt have the smiths 3 spokes anymore
The orange one looks like a really good car with 81000 genuine miles[well supposedly]

cheers richie

[dannyboy]

my engine is very streetable and not very exotic although even though the car is mot ready i wouldnt want to drive it to the pod

[Rocket Ron]

Does trading parts count ??

Currently have a engine that cost me £2800 so far including labour A body and running gear that cost £200 , various parts that cost me another £400-500  due to trading parts
The  gearbox with quaffe was the most expensive at £3 k  
Got to add a cage and another £1k and hopefully run an 11

Wanna team up ? And run a ten for under £10 k ??

[richie]

Does trading parts count ??

Currently have a engine that cost me £2800 so far including labour A body and running gear that cost £200 , various parts tha cost.me another £400-500  due to trading pars
The  gearbox with quaffe was the most expensive at £3 k   
Got to add a cage and another £1k and hopefully run an 11

Wanna team up ? And run a ten for under £10 k ??

if its the total you spent inc buying the parts you traded then yes why not,if I buy a car and dont need wheels,engine,gearbox,interior etc then I will sell them and the money will go back in the pot,I am after a total money spent to create the car as it goes down the track,you need to finish it and come join danny and me trying to do it 

cheers richie

[richie]

my engine is very streetable and not very exotic although even though the car is mot ready i wouldnt want to drive it to the pod

lightweight,you not the car

cheers richie

[richie]

Hey Greg

you want to come throw a tune in it when its done?  i know you have some ideas on jetting a nitrous set up


cheers richie

[Andy Sykes]

my engine is very streetable and not very exotic although even though the car is mot ready i wouldnt want to drive it to the pod

Just drive it from my workshop Or from we're I keep the tow busDanny will that count 

[dannyboy]

i might get it moted to drive it from your workshop to the pod as any further and id just call the rac and say its broke then get them to drive me home 

[Andy Sykes]

i might get it moted to drive it from your workshop to the pod as any further and id just call the rac and say its broke then get them to drive me home 

Wait till November and you don't need an MOT 

[Greg G]

I know with my street motor in John Varela's Super Comp car we had less than $8,000 in it total. The car would just need some interior and lights to be street legal. My boy Jacob's car doesn't have more than that in it either, but it hasn't run a 10 yet.

[Fasterbrit]

Just to throw a curve ball as you aren't going to be naturally aspirated anyway... Why not put a huge turbo on a little 1776 and wind the boost up. After all, there's that Swedish car from Turbo Town that ran 10.1 at Scc and that was 1600, stock crank, stock heads etc. The only real expensive stuff is the fuel injection side of things. But these can also be sourced second hand quite cheaply.

I think your biggest single cost on this project will be your gearbox. No real way around this issue, unless you buy a 915 for £1,500 and run it as is. Perfect ratios for turbo already and plenty strong enough. Five speeds also, so good on the motorways...

[richie]

I know with my street motor in John Varela's Super Comp car we had less than $8,000 in it total. The car would just need some interior and lights to be street legal. My boy Jacob's car doesn't have more than that in it either, but it hasn't run a 10 yet.

Thanks Greg,real facts and figures is what I need   I cant see us getting it that low over here,but who knows if I can find used bargains

cheers richie

[richie]

Just to throw a curve ball as you aren't going to be naturally aspirated anyway... Why not put a huge turbo on a little 1776 and wind the boost up. After all, there's that Swedish car from Turbo Town that ran 10.1 at Scc and that was 1600, stock crank, stock heads etc. The only real expensive stuff is the fuel injection side of things. But these can also be sourced second hand quite cheaply.

I think your biggest single cost on this project will be your gearbox. No real way around this issue, unless you buy a 915 for £1,500 and run it as is. Perfect ratios for turbo already and plenty strong enough. Five speeds also, so good on the motorways...

Yes Nikalus's car is a good example of what can be done with normal parts,but for this i would like to stick with the bottle,there has to be lots of cars out there running good healthy 2276-2332 engines that would take a good shot of gas without destroying themselves,but no one really uses it,maybe I can show it wont destroy the engine[maybe I cant ] 
My own preference would be with EFI but all those existing cars with idas should be able to do the same,I have read so many times that there is no difference power wise at wide open throttle

i ran 11.5 best in the old cabrio with the bottle on a vw "super beetle mainshaft" before I messed up and broke 1st gear,now in a 1800lb car it should last at least to low 11s,and with what I learnt about clutches since then I think I can get it to work,so the idea would be
singls side cover case,SB mainshaft,close 3rd and 4th and maybe see if a super diff is man enough,that shouldnt cost to much,unless I can find a bargain used box.



So lets here some more suggestions on engine combo's ,well everthing really?

Would say a renault box work and be strong enough?


cheers richie

[Eddie DVK]

Hi Richie,

Come over to the dark side, go Type 4 ,
get some secondhand 100mm Deutz cylinders (hope you can machine them cheap), get some 101.6 JE pistons in it. Stainless steel valves aren t to expensive on aircooled.net.
maybe have a look here at getbackontracks post, http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,14531.90.html
 
I really like your idea, Hope you accomplice this.

Regards Edgar

[richie]

Hi Richie,

Come over to the dark side, go Type 4 ,
get some secondhand 100mm Deutz cylinders (hope you can machine them cheap), get some 101.6 JE pistons in it. Stainless steel valves aren t to expensive on aircooled.net.
maybe have a look here at getbackontracks post, http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,14531.90.html
 
I really like your idea, Hope you accomplice this.

Regards Edgar

NOOOOOOoooooo    From what little I know of type 4 nothing is cheap,how do you get the heads to seal when you pressurise them beyond N/A[turbo or nitrous] is it still welding blocks on the case and adding studs?


There is so much more type 1 stuff available,and so many already have it that it is the logical route to take,and I have a resonable idea of what works,it wont be fun if I break stuff everytime I go to the track because I dont know what the limit is of the parts used,and I do know how to find the limits believe me


But I am going to do more research inot bergers bus box idea,maybe a stock 2l bay 091 would be strong enough with just the syncro diff added,need to look into stock ratios

cheers richie

[Eddie DVK]

NOOOOOOoooooo   From what little I know of type 4 nothing is cheap,how do you get the heads to seal when you pressurise them beyond N/A[turbo or nitrous] is it still welding blocks on the case and adding studs?

cheers richie

Hahaha.
On the sealing matter have a look how porsche 911 turbo cylinder tops are .
Yepp that is the downfall it is not cheap, but the + is, everything is very strong.

Good luck Edgar

[Fasterbrit]

The type 4 idea isn't a bad one and could even save money in the long run, as you won't have to spend dollars on upgrading brakes. Make a clever engine release system and drop the anchor 

[Elnef]

I like the orange car you found

Put this engine in and add youre bottle
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17885.msg263527.html#msg263527

Do it this way to keep heads on no welding 

[richie]

I like the orange car you found

Put this engine in and add youre bottle
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17885.msg263527.html#msg263527

Do it this way to keep heads on no welding 

That looks nice,but expensive    and given the problems you guys have had with type 4s and actually know something about them makes me want to stick to what I know even more

cheers richie

[Ole]

You can have my '64 daily driver for the project. When you're done (timeslip!) I'd take it back for you to safe space...

Ole

[dannyboy]

richie
andy joyner has an irs box for sale with super diff im not sure of the internals but it handled 200hp turbo engine he only wants 500 quid for it

[j-f]

Sounds like a very interesting threads. Not that I want to run 10, but to have an idea how make things in a logical order.
There is a lot of subjects of this kind in US cars magasines. That's a very good idea to make one for aircooled vw's. Having fun on a DIY guy's budget.
Thanks Richie 

[fastbus]

richie
andy joyner has an irs box for sale with super diff im not sure of the internals but it handled 200hp turbo engine he only wants 500 quid for it

Sorry fella but i bought it 

Hey Richie,
              if your going to run efi, are you likely to use the cb style throttle bodies and tap your foggers in the manifolds, or would you use a single throttle body and use a single fogger mixing the fuel and gas?
What would be a better system for the power increase you require?
Are you likely to run your system with a controller?

[richie]

richie
andy joyner has an irs box for sale with super diff im not sure of the internals but it handled 200hp turbo engine he only wants 500 quid for it

Sorry fella but i bought it 

Hey Richie,
              if your going to run efi, are you likely to use the cb style throttle bodies and tap your foggers in the manifolds, or would you use a single throttle body and use a single fogger mixing the fuel and gas?
What would be a better system for the power increase you require?
Are you likely to run your system with a controller?

individual throttle bodies is what I ran before so problerly go that route again,tap the manifolds for the nitrous,yes use a controller to help the type1 gearbox live


cheers richie

[Russell]

doing it in a bug is easy.... its been done before not only by you, why not make it interesting and use a Split Bus....... Im thinking Empi Bus which has IRS conversion, Im thinking old No Mercy IRS gear box, Im thinking NOS brm's and i have either the engine that cam from no mercy or the super street engine from ron f, i have 1 full bottle of gas, so all we need is an induction system......... now that would be a target a 10 sec street parts hauler..........

Awaiting your reply.

[fastbus]

Hey Richie
Regarding you engine power, how agressive is the motor likely to be before a shot?
How much of a shot do you think you will use to put you in the 10's?
Will the compression ratio be an important factor in a heavy shot of gas?

Sorry for all the questions but i'm building one of my cars with a similar idear {stock 2.1i wbx}
with a single wet fogger system and a controller.

I will work my way up the jettings to see how far my £300.00 engine can go before it fails.

This is an intresting thread that i will look forward to see the results from.

Paul

 

[richie]

doing it in a bug is easy.... its been done before not only by you, why not make it interesting and use a Split Bus....... Im thinking Empi Bus which has IRS conversion, Im thinking old No Mercy IRS gear box, Im thinking NOS brm's and i have either the engine that cam from no mercy or the super street engine from ron f, i have 1 full bottle of gas, so all we need is an induction system......... now that would be a target a 10 sec street parts hauler..........

Awaiting your reply.

Not quite what I was thinking but we can do the empi bus next

cheers richie

[richie]

Hey Richie
Regarding you engine power, how agressive is the motor likely to be before a shot?
How much of a shot do you think you will use to put you in the 10's?
Will the compression ratio be an important factor in a heavy shot of gas?

Sorry for all the questions but i'm building one of my cars with a similar idear {stock 2.1i wbx}
with a single wet fogger system and a controller.

I will work my way up the jettings to see how far my £300.00 engine can go before it fails.

This is an intresting thread that i will look forward to see the results from.

Paul

 

about 180hp from the engine and the same from the nitrous ,compression will be set for street use


cheers richie