Weight questions and looking for chassis makers from scandinavia

[jeff01]

I´m planing a new dragcar build but would like to ask few questions to smarter people

I haven´t decided what todo with front axle
How much would be the weight difference between stock beam and with mcpherson way you use with uniball A arms?  
second thing I noticed that few persons have welded front beam to frame....why so few?

Second big question for me is the weight of frame.  How much would be the difference between steel and crmo ? ( tubeframe chassis wiht cage)

Thanks for your help

[Roman]

The minimum wall thickness is .083 for chromemoly, .118 for mild. That means maybe 25 to kilos on a full chassis. Some more if you want to go full 25.4 (7.50 certification).
There is some weight difference between the stock front end and an A-Arm suspension, but you never have to much weight in the front of a rear engine VW.
I have link pin on my RLR chassis and if I would have changed to A-Arm it would mainly be due to a better handling front end, not the weight.

[jeff01]

The minimum wall thickness is .083 for chromemoly, .118 for mild. That means maybe 25 to kilos on a full chassis. Some more if you want to go full 25.4 (7.50 certification).
There is some weight difference between the stock front end and an A-Arm suspension, but you never have to much weight in the front of a rear engine VW.
I have link pin on my RLR chassis and if I would have changed to A-Arm it would mainly be due to a better handling front end, not the weight.

thanks for your answer. Decided to go with stock beam this time and started prepearing it.

Does anybody know some chassis makers from finland, sweden or norway.....interested of buying chassis kit on just crmo pipes
Thanks

[Neil Davies]

There are often some good deals to be had on thesamba - complete chassis pop up fairly regularly. The other way to do it is buy a Ron Lummus chassis kit and have it welded up closer to home. I had a RLR cage in my old car and it was pretty comprehensive. Still had to fishmouth all the tubes myself tho. Worst bit about Chro-moly is that I couldn't do any more than tack it in at home then take it to Wayne Allman at Intergalactic Customs for Tig welding.

[jeff01]

Are there some more tubechassis kit available in sweden, norway or finland? It looks quite expencive to buy it from US
Or what would be the best place to buy CRMO tubes?

[leec]

In my experience I couldn't buy Chromoly tubing cheaper than what I bought the kit from Ron Lummus for. I appreciate shipping does add cost but a lot of the work is already done (tubes bent and cut to rough length)

My dad has spent a lot of his working life around steel/fabrication and even his contacts couldn't get a great price on chromoly.

Lee

[wph]

Current Euro to dollar ratio is not favourable to build chassis from RLR kit but IMO it might still be the cheapest way to get one done.
I can hook you up with some Finnish chassis builders if you wish but the rest is up to you.
A lot of people from Finland get their stuff done in Estonia due to cheaper labour and materials, if you can deliver blueprints and specs they may be able to fabricate one locally.

Pekka

[jeff01]

aircooled. net is selling rlr kits correct?

It looks like kits are chereper in aircooled.net than in rlr homepage or Im not getting it....

I asked Aircooled.net and they told me that shipping in US would be something like 500$ shipping from US to Estonia would be near 400$ and taxes atleast 400$ so Im paying more for shipping than kit.

I would Like to weld it together myself, I have place where I can bend it too but looking for cheap pipes hasnt got any closer results with reasonable price than this: http://chassisparts.com/tubes/chrome-moly-tubes.html


Maybe I should make my first build like this from steel....it would be cheaper and easier to weld. Weight difference wouldnt be so big and it would make less noticable because I would  do it with v8 midengine  not for little cc engine.  what do you think?  
I´m interested of building 7.5s floor with 8.5 cage with  opportunity to update the cage to of 7.5 someday maybe or its not legal with steel? (I know that steel pipes must be thicker)

[Rocket Ron]

 Sfi specification 25.1g full bodied car tube chassis roll cage 7.49 seconds et and quicker 2800 lbs max now only allows chromemoly or Docol R8 steel tube

No mild steel. I have this problem with a car I've bought and now having to go another route with it.

[jeff01]

Thanks, smarter now So steel is good up to 8,5
Actually I think that I shouldn´t worry about going faster than 8.5 because I want to build it cheap and it means that I don´t get much more horses than kilograms. Somewhere between 600 and 800 hp  depends of changing rods or not.  Over that I need some special gearbox, some special engine but up to that I can go with cheap stock parts.

But what type of floor is good for 8.5? I´ve seen 7.5 floors but didn´t find any info about 8.5

[mikko k]

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,26319.0.html

Gearbox for you...

[Rocket Ron]

Thanks, smarter now So steel is good up to 8,5
Actually I think that I shouldn´t worry about going faster than 8.5 because I want to build it cheap and it means that I don´t get much more horses than kilograms. Somewhere between 600 and 800 hp  depends of changing rods or not.  Over that I need some special gearbox, some special engine but up to that I can go with cheap stock parts.

But what type of floor is good for 8.5? I´ve seen 7.5 floors but didn´t find any info about 8.5

I have the same problem, chassis doesn't fit within the sfi rules for full body and tube chassis unless you going very fast

[jeff01]

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,26319.0.html

Gearbox for you...

Sorry, I´m going to build a whole car with that price  
I just want to make copy of my current car but 150kg lighter, 2times more powerful variant and 300hp engine and 200€ gearbox is good for that  
My current car: http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=146216&start=60

[Rocket Ron]

Current Euro to dollar ratio is not favourable to build chassis from RLR kit but IMO it might still be the cheapest way to get one done.
I can hook you up with some Finnish chassis builders if you wish but the rest is up to you.
A lot of people from Finland get their stuff done in Estonia due to cheaper labour and materials, if you can deliver blueprints and specs they may be able to fabricate one locally.

Pekka

Hi Ian

If you don't mind me asking, if your fiat isn't chromemoly have you had it tagged and if so to what spec

Be interested to know before I start work on my fiat 600

Thanks in advance

Ron

[jeff01]

Sorry I think I didn´t get the point of your post Ron (because of my language barrier I think) I just don´t get  that what rules I have to follow with floor when I want to make it of steel tubes and go up to 8.5 
 

[Rocket Ron]

Jeff

I m not sure either. I can't see a sfi chassis spec for full body car with tube chassis Unless you want to run under 8.49.

There  doesn't seem to be a spec for slower cars. 9.99 would be more than enough for me but I'm in the same position and can't find a spec to build to

Regards Ron

[jeff01]

Thanks for your answer
I´ll try to ask my friend soon....He makes technical inspection on events. He has all rulesbooks too. Unfortunatelly he is really busy and I have to wait.

[mikko k]

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,26319.0.html

Gearbox for you...

Sorry, I´m going to build a whole car with that price  
I just want to make copy of my current car but 150kg lighter, 2times more powerful variant and 300hp engine and 200€ gearbox is good for that  
My current car: http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=146216&start=60

With cromo tube chassis, V8 engine, I really don't beleave that you can build a race car with that cheap....

Tell me, what 200€ gearbox can handle 600 to 800 hp? That was your target above.

[jeff01]

I linked my last project. Ive put together a solution what can make 700hp when double the atmosphearic pressure with turbo....and it can handle quite many starts in light body when I make 100% spool for gearbox like this. Weakest part is differential in that box. I have worked out the rear suspension for that and its pice of cake making a copy of it (all is in my computer and I just have to send it to laszer and weld it together)
I started messing with that cheap diesel audi box because There was no other cheap box available here what holds some power. Thatswhy I had to move the engine to the cabin and there was no reason to use aircooled engine then. We have 1 audi a4 quattro here in estonia what has bee driven many years with similar quattro box. Internals are mostly same. Mostly it broke cv joints or differentials but not gears.... this 1.8L audi had more than 1000hp then and it made low 9. Last year they had 1300 with nitro but they pulled this engine out to rwd 7.5 body quite soon  if Im not mistaken then it made  8.9s pass with that audi box in that heavy A4 T https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN7llmuR_4c
I do all myself and All I buy is crmo, some parts and welding gas  You don´t have to beleve it but in real life its possible that I spend 10k on parts and 1000hours on that it comes out as 40k car  

[PPRMicke]

Please read this
file:///C:/Users/m/Downloads/fia_drag_racing_-_technical_regulations_and_race_procedures_-_2016.pdf
We chassis builder here in Sweden based Crom molly But they go on to Ducol R8  ( Mats brag Racing / MBE )
/// M

[mikko k]

All I can say to you Jeff is: Good luck with your project!

[jeff01]

Please read this
file:///C:/Users/m/Downloads/fia_drag_racing_-_technical_regulations_and_race_procedures_-_2016.pdf
We chassis builder here in Sweden based Crom molly But they go on to Ducol R8  ( Mats brag Racing / MBE )
/// M

Sorry but you linked a file from your computer and I cant open it

Thank You Mikko

[leec]

Also, buying the tubing/chassis kit is the cheap bit. It's the extras that add up in terms of cost

And also, a SFi rating only says the chassis is safe at that et, not that the chassis would be capable of getting to that speed!!
Lee

[cel]

Please read this
file:///C:/Users/m/Downloads/fia_drag_racing_-_technical_regulations_and_race_procedures_-_2016.pdf
We chassis builder here in Sweden based Crom molly But they go on to Ducol R8  ( Mats brag Racing / MBE )
/// M

Sorry but you linked a file from your computer and I cant open it

Thank You Mikko

Hi!

You can download the pdf here under technical regulations:

http://www.fia.com/regulation/category/101

Nice greetings!
Marcel

[PPRMicke]

/// Micke

[BeetleBug]

In general:

You need to be compliant to the FIA rules down to 8.50 - 149mph. Any faster and you have to build according to the SFi rules.

The SFI Chassis Specs 25.1G, 25.4B, and 25.5B is for Full Bodied Car Drag Race Roll Cages down to 7.50.

You need to buy the SFI chassis specs directly from SFI unless you have friend that have copied them for you.

-BB-

[Rocket Ron]

Latest specs

[Roman]

25.1 is for 7.49 and quicker Ron.
25.4 is for 7.50 to 8.50.
Where does it say that mild steel isn't OK for 25.4?
At least not in my copy. Prove that I am wrong with a scan from the SFI 25.4!

In 25.1 it is 4130 or Docol, but how many VW's has gone under 7.5?

For mild steel you can use EN 10305-4, seamless tubes for Hydraulic piping.
Don't use EN 10305-2, they are very hard and almost impossible to bend.

[Rocket Ron]

Not trying to prove you wrong roman just adding info to the thread

[Neil Davies]

Ron, it's my understanding that you don't need to comply with SFI rules until you're running 8.50 or quicker, which your Fiat would never be allowed to do because of the wheelbase. So instead it's the ET Bracket rules and admittedly it's been a while since I looked at them but I'm pretty sure they allow you to have a mild steel chassis and cage. Worth a chat with Mark Norton?