FK87 and Fk89 on the street

[alex d]

We've all been there, looking at a list of camshafts and then you get to the ones described as "drag racing only" 

Looking at some (famous and not so famous) cars over the years and you see the Fk87 and Fk89 mentioned many times, but how is real life with these long duration camshafts?

[leec]

I have an fk87 in my 2276cc oval. It is street legal. When I drive it on the street I love it, for about 20 minutes. I drive it  and its a real buzz but after I've scared myself a bit it becomes hard work. If I am honest if I want a longer drive I much prefer my 1776cc bug with an engle 120.

[Jim Ratto]

I ran an FK87 for a little while in 1991-92
It wasn't as bad as I had expected, down low. And explosive 5000revs +
It works best with very close ratio gears, higher compression ratio and high air speed intake tracts

The larger the cc you build the engine to be, the less detrimental effect on low and middle rpm

One cam that I have used a few times now, that could be considered as an alternative to FK87 (like maybe, joking, you could refer to this one as FK85  ) is the Pauter R6E8 cam
Best street cam I've used in my 1967. I ran it with Scat 1.25 rockers.

[Dominick Luppino]

My new car's 2332 has a FK-87 runs better then I expected!

[Martin S.]

Cams with overlap have the cool lumpy idle sound, but if you plan to ever convert to EFI the overlap will produce less of a vacuum signal for the ECU. Even a 110 has too much overlap and my engine got a Webcam 218 with its 112 deg lobe centers (instead of the more common 108) making the engine easier to tune. civilized for street yet still has .455" lift for big rpms.

[dive!dive!]

Cams with overlap have the cool lumpy idle sound, but if you plan to ever convert to EFI the overlap will produce less of a vacuum signal for the ECU. Even a 110 has too much overlap and my engine got a Webcam 218 with its 112 deg lobe centers (instead of the more common 108) making the engine easier to tune. civilized for street yet still has .455" lift for big rpms.

That's odd. I have a Bugpack 4062-10 (v similar to the W110) with 1.25 rockers and get 65kpa vac at idle. In fact, the signal is more than good enough that I do the whole ignition map on vacuum signal load.

[Martin S.]

The car drives like a new Porsche, so I'm happy! 

[modnrod]

FK87s are ALL about the cool lumpy sound! Especially if you're stooopid enough to run a 2BBL centremount with it.......LOL!
I do remember having all the fun getting a bit old after 1/2 hour though.

A lot like a BP RX-3 with a fat Weber.

[DaveN]

I have used the FK87 in a 1915cc , 2332cc and have one in my current 2332cc it works great, easy to drive

There is a well known 1776cc engine in the UK that runs a FK87 and the previous owner did plenty of trips to the track and home again afterwards!

[WPS]

They're great cams for the money....loads of fun!!!...I still use them.
 
I ran an 89 in my 1850cc on the street everyday and to the track, ran low 12's in an all steel car!...even drove it to EBI and back (500 mile round trip) with some racing inbetween....awesome fun!!

They're more friendly in bigger motors and you need some compression and good heads....but who wants friendly anyway  You want that kick in the back when they come on!! #notforpussies

Best cams out there are JPM...no question...kinder on your valvetrain more HP and smooth but of course more money but you get what you pay for right!?

Have a good 2017 Cal-Lookers!!

[Neil Davies]

I find it incredible that the Dragon Slayer race car used an FK89 with a turbo - obviously not on the street, but what a wild combination!

[dannyboy]

i find it incredible that ian clark used a hashtag.....

[Andy]

Can a Fk89 work well with stock ratio gears.
I have a loose plan of building a 2276 with a FK89 , I have not bought heads yet but was thinking of CB wedgeports . As a street and strip car, would I be wasting my time trying to use it with my current gearbox, which has 4.12 diff and 0.89 fourth.

[Trent B]

I ran a 2110 with a FK87 in a full weight street car for quite awhile. When my close ratio 4.37 trans was out for repair I put in a stock ratio 4.12
(.89 fourth) so I could drive the car while waiting. I was surprised to find the car still ran pretty hard! And way more drive able....

[Fastbrit]

I find it incredible that the Dragon Slayer race car used an FK89 with a turbo - obviously not on the street, but what a wild combination!

No Mercy had an FK-89-spec cam with the turbo. No problem.

Back in the mid-90s, ran an FK-87 in the chop-top - 84 x 90.5, 42 x 37 heads and just under 10.0:1 CR. Drove 100 miles to the Pod, ran mid-twelves, drove home again. Great all-round cam.

[Neil Davies]

I find it incredible that the Dragon Slayer race car used an FK89 with a turbo - obviously not on the street, but what a wild combination!

No Mercy had an FK-89-spec cam with the turbo. No problem.

Back in the mid-90s, ran an FK-87 in the chop-top - 84 x 90.5, 42 x 37 heads and just under 10.0:1 CR. Drove 100 miles to the Pod, ran mid-twelves, drove home again. Great all-round cam.

It's an FK-87 in my 2007cc motor that's going in my street car. CR is just over 10 and I think the same valve sizes as yours. It ran 12.50's in my race car all day long on close ratio 1st to 4the and a 3.88 r&p. Looking forward to what it'll do with stock gears - what stock gears exactly depends on what I can find in the shed!

[Andy]

I see a pattern of sticking to the FK87 for street cars ...

Keith , I see some of your friends in the DKP are running a FK89 on the street, notably  Paul Debelling lists his as having 4.12, .89 4 speed gearbox. I don't suppose you have heard how it drives. 

[Fastbrit]

I see a pattern of sticking to the FK87 for street cars ...

Keith , I see some of your friends in the DKP are running a FK89 on the street, notably  Paul Debelling lists his as having 4.12, .89 4 speed gearbox. I don't suppose you have heard how it drives. 

Well, to be honest you have to realise that some of the cars don't get to see a huge amount of street driving, and then mostly on level roads (not that many hills around). With short gears and steady throttle, not too much of a problem – tall gears and traffic is another matter!

[Jim Ratto]

I see a pattern of sticking to the FK87 for street cars ...

Keith , I see some of your friends in the DKP are running a FK89 on the street, notably  Paul Debelling lists his as having 4.12, .89 4 speed gearbox. I don't suppose you have heard how it drives. 

I have the 86C Web Cam in my pump gas 94 x 78 (9.1:1) with 0.89 fourth and 4.375:1 ring and pinion, 26" rear tire and it is as driveable as my 2016 GTI through the gears. I would imagine the FK87 would run somewhat similar in my car, possibly everything happening a few hundred rpm later.
With 86C, in fourth, I typically "drive" at 3400-3800 rpm, steady state to maintain a sensible speed on freeways around here. My drive to DKP meeting is 65-75 miles each way. Admittedly, rarely do Southern CA freeways allow you many miles at freeway speeds, due to congestion 24/7. Anyway, if I need to pass, even under 3000rpm in fourth, the engine response is immediate and the new CSP discs are working well.
If the engine oil is up to temp and I'm not trying to be quiet, I typically shift @ 4500-5200 rpm 1st-2nd and into 3rd.
Variables such as port diameter/length and exhaust type are going to make a considerable difference in how a given cam will or will not "behave" too.

Remember, a VW is an incredibly light car, unless you drag it down with extra junk, and when you plug a big cc engine into it, you're creating a power to weight ratio few cars can compare with. If you go big cc, you can go pretty wild with the cam, and not be too terribly concerned with gear stacks. Smaller cc, yeah, you'd want to gear the car to the motor.

It's all fun to think about anyway.

Jim

[Udo]

We've all been there, looking at a list of camshafts and then you get to the ones described as "drag racing only" 

Looking at some (famous and not so famous) cars over the years and you see the Fk87 and Fk89 mentioned many times, but how is real life with these long duration camshafts?

.  Would be better to say what you want ? Perhaps there are better options ...FK 87 is a good street cam . But you need some cc and good heads make the power at the end

[Larry S]

I ran a FK89 on the street (weekend car) with a 2275 with 42x37.5 valves, 48's 9:5.1 and it was drive able, would I want to drive it everyday? I wouldn't but that is me. I had a 1755 (69x90) motor with big heads and a VZ series Engle cam with 48's and it was a lot more enjoyable for me to drive, it still was a fast car but a lot funnier to drive. As they say everybody has an opinion....

[Bruce67]

Great topic...I have a 61 bug that I towed back home from California several years ago that I hope to have painted and back together by the summer. I installed a fresh 2276 with Darren K. big valve heads, 11.6 comp., fk89, Berg 1/34, 48's and a Kaforski 3.88. I was originally building the car as a fast street/strip car, but it will be street only now. After reading this post, I cant wait to drive it. The car is pretty light with Erco's, t-bars, no back seat...so it should be a ton of fun. Lots of Domestic machinery to harrass around here, lol!!!

[Andy]

My intention was to build a 2276 with an fk89 to run on super unleaded as a strip car but still be streetable for local events. If I can get the engine together for this summer, I would run it in my Cal Look bug which has a stock ratio gearbox. I am just hoping that the cam and gear ratios are not so much of a mismatch that it is a lose lose situation with it being a pig to drive on the street and not much quicker on the strip, than my 2110 with an fk8 .

[Fastbrit]

Paul Bate used to run a FK-89 in his 2007cc VWDRC Street class car, which was also his daily driver. He had two sets of pushrods and rocker arms. For everyday driving he ran 1.1:1 rockers and one set of pushrods but when he got to the track, he'd change them to the 1.4:1 ratio rockers and swap in the other set of pushrods to suit the new geometry.

[Andy]

In that case , I will carry on collecting parts for it, thanks 😀