The weight saving thread

[Peter Shattock]

GKN G169 tripod 160g lighter than a std type 1 CV. Not sure they would last to long for those on here with a good drop of power and traction. I'm giving them a go with 230hp and 165ftlb in a 1500lb car.
If all goes to plan this week should know if they work next weekend.

Peter

[Martin]

Peters Axles.... 300M 8mm gundrilling.... lightest axles ive ever made!



and a 356 Flywheel  5.99lbs





martin

[spanners]

Good to see your on it peter, tripods have to handle 700 hp for 2 hrs in F1, so you should be fine if the alignment is good, given a dragway may offer higher shock loads off the lights, ive got 3lb of my middle  guts so far, the easy bit, the rest will come of once i get trackside in a few weeks .
you are of course using LI- ION battery's i hope.

[Fasterbrit]

Not been on here for a while, but am still impressed with the ideas people come up with. I've heard bone is pretty dense and weighty, so opted to replace some of mine with a couple of bits of titanium. The only drawback I can see is six weeks on crutches...
Keeno  

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[ianmac]

Matt you've got the longest toes I have ever seen 

[benssp]

Looks like a muppet skeleton

[Peter Shattock]

Good to see your on it peter, tripods have to handle 700 hp for 2 hrs in F1, so you should be fine if the alignment is good, given a dragway may offer higher shock loads off the lights, ive got 3lb of my middle  guts so far, the easy bit, the rest will come of once i get trackside in a few weeks .
you are of course using LI- ION battery's i hope.

The idea of using the tripod joints came from formula cars but I was surprised to see the size of the tripod when it arrived and although the roundy roundy cars often have more power they are often much lighter and don't have the traction we have of the startline so I'll remain sceptical till I know it works!

Yes have the LI-ION battery, but no charger as yet as they are still out of stock so I suspect I will be using my trusty redtop 15 at UKDD but apparently they are due this coming week so you never know.

Have you ever checked the centre of gravity of your cars?

Peter

[Lee.C]

tri-pod joint..... so thats what they are called  I have started seeing ALOT of these on modern FWD cars mainly on the INNER joints, I have thought they looked like a MUCH more efficient system 

[brian e]

Here are some push rod tips I made.  I still need to run them through the oven and heat treat them. 
.7oz's per 16 lighter then the regular tips that come with the standard chro-mo cut to length sets.  I could have removed a little more in a few places, but these were a quickie experiment.  I think I will try titanium next for a little more weight savings.  I will be adding them to my own .035" wall 4130 tube. 


Brian

[Zach Gomulka]

That's seven tenths of an ounce? As in about 20g? Lot of work I'm sure, but they look good. I like your thinking.

[brian e]

That's seven tenths of an ounce? As in about 20g? Lot of work I'm sure, but they look good. I like your thinking.

Yeah, 20grams difference.

The first one was a little work, but now there are easy.  We have a swiss CNC lathe at work.

[richie]

Here are some push rod tips I made.  I still need to run them through the oven and heat treat them. 
.7oz's per 16 lighter then the regular tips that come with the standard chro-mo cut to length sets.  I could have removed a little more in a few places, but these were a quickie experiment.  I think I will try titanium next for a little more weight savings.  I will be adding them to my own .035" wall 4130 tube. 


Brian

How much does it add that the bigger hole will fill with oil? I would think that with ti it might actually be heavier with the oil than the Ti left in there?

cheers richie

[Jon]

Here are some push rod tips I made.  I still need to run them through the oven and heat treat them. 
.7oz's per 16 lighter then the regular tips that come with the standard chro-mo cut to length sets.  I could have removed a little more in a few places, but these were a quickie experiment.  I think I will try titanium next for a little more weight savings.  I will be adding them to my own .035" wall 4130 tube. 


Brian

How much does it add that the bigger hole will fill with oil? I would think that with ti it might actually be heavier with the oil than the Ti left in there?

cheers richie

That depends on if you are competing in dry or wet class Richie...
How about running them empty (air) and make a separate oil line to the rockershaft... might even save in something on spring tension.

[Martin]

or you could run a nylon tube down the center of the pushrods reducing the diameter, so it holds less oil but still flows oil....


Martin

[brian e]

I had thought about both of these options.  I even sourced some thin wall nylon tube that will fit nicely into the newly drilled end hole.  I might try it out on these. 

I also like the no oil option with a separate spray bar or feed line to the rocker shaft. 

Some light 356 style lifters with a small diameter body will be next.  Probably not before winter though. 

I will heat threat these tips and get them into an engine in the next few weeks for testing.  The next run will have a few more little changes to shave a tiny bit more off each of them.     

Brian

[andy198712]

I had thought about both of these options.  I even sourced some thin wall nylon tube that will fit nicely into the newly drilled end hole.  I might try it out on these. 

I also like the no oil option with a separate spray bar or feed line to the rocker shaft. 

Some light 356 style lifters with a small diameter body will be next.  Probably not before winter though. 

I will heat threat these tips and get them into an engine in the next few weeks for testing.  The next run will have a few more little changes to shave a tiny bit more off each of them.     

Brian

how much do the 356 lifters weigh?

[spanners]

Some more clever ideas coming out, as to the roll centre Peter, No, ive not calculated it, but bugs are quite good with some work, seat is low and light,  i sit as low as i can, to the point where i have to guess where the track margins are  if im unsighted in a dog fight lol, gear box is raised to drop the roof line, i have to run at 40mm max ground clearance or i would go down lower,  i am looking at 13" wheels as there are good gains to be had from them, and the very latest KEVLAR TYRES, all the latest compounds and very very... LIGHT.. my pet hate is the big wheel fashion for "lookers", they miss out on so much free cornering power and wonder why they have problems lowering their cars, more so on 02/3 supers...
but off topic...   
 one good thing about the brazilian floor pans and panels is they are very very light, i love all the paper thin re pro panels, so light...
Monika boy, Yes, ive seen tripods on street cars, as you say on inner joints, they dont have the angle range to steer and drive..
Now, if i had 2 grand sterling id buy a carbon skid lid, another 1.5 kilos saved lol
up untill the early 80's we could run alloy roll cages, but i suppose they had to go, Banned unfortunately.

[brian e]

how much do the 356 lifters weigh?

here is some pretty good info and pics.  I was just going to do a type 1 lifter with a smaller stem and make some smaller ID bushings for the case.

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,8438.0.html

Brian

[richie]

Here are some push rod tips I made.  I still need to run them through the oven and heat treat them. 
.7oz's per 16 lighter then the regular tips that come with the standard chro-mo cut to length sets.  I could have removed a little more in a few places, but these were a quickie experiment.  I think I will try titanium next for a little more weight savings.  I will be adding them to my own .035" wall 4130 tube. 


Brian

How much does it add that the bigger hole will fill with oil? I would think that with ti it might actually be heavier with the oil than the Ti left in there?

cheers richie

That depends on if you are competing in dry or wet class Richie...
How about running them empty (air) and make a separate oil line to the rockershaft... might even save in something on spring tension.

Jon

I have seen them with blank tips,no hole to do exactly that,the possible downside is that with no hot oil passing through they wont expand at all and the valve lash problem with be even greater.

A spray bar to lubricate the rockers and cool the valve springs would solve the other problems,not a new idea as I think there is a WBX already doing this

cheers Richie

[spanners]

yes,, i run spray jets to the valve springs on my circuit wassers, but i use tractor technology as its reliable, ive seen it done with an external spray bar system on the Scat heads as they were short on oil supply for circuit racing, but they were still un reliable for any endurance work, my way uses nothing more than a milled channel in the rocker bore leading to a vee shaped grove on the spring side of the rocker, it mimics the spring compression movements and emmits a fan shaped oil jet, very effective and cant go wrong. KISS.

[ALB]

yes,, i run spray jets to the valve springs on my circuit wassers, but i use tractor technology as its reliable, ive seen it done with an external spray bar system on the Scat heads as they were short on oil supply for circuit racing, but they were still un reliable for any endurance work, my way uses nothing more than a milled channel in the rocker bore leading to a vee shaped grove on the spring side of the rocker, it mimics the spring compression movements and emmits a fan shaped oil jet, very effective and cant go wrong. KISS.

Would it be possible to see a pic or 2? It would be terribly appreciated. Al

[andy198712]

how much do the 356 lifters weigh?

here is some pretty good info and pics.  I was just going to do a type 1 lifter with a smaller stem and make some smaller ID bushings for the case.

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,8438.0.html

Brian

maybe a set of TP's 56g lifters would be close alternative?

[Zach Gomulka]

Monika boy

 

[brian e]

This was a quick experiment I did over lunch the other day.
Aluminum rocker adjuster nuts.  The set of 8 are 18 grams lighter than 8 stock steel ones.  They dont need huge torque, so they should hold up fine.  Same thing could be done in Ti pretty easy.




Brian

[cameron shorey]

This was a quick experiment I did over lunch the other day.
Aluminum rocker adjuster nuts.  The set of 8 are 18 grams lighter than 8 stock steel ones.  They dont need huge torque, so they should hold up fine.  Same thing could be done in Ti pretty easy.
Brian

I made mine out of 7/16" (approx 11mm) Ti hex bar stock.

[Pas]

Found this pic on another forum.  This guy is attempting to recreate Muffler Mike's experiment of watching how much oil stays in the left head at rpms.  I noticed the valve cover he sacrificed is stamped from sheet Al.  Can you imagine what that weighs?
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Hey Bruce I think I have an answer for you!

I found a pair of these at a local VW swap meet Yesterday. They are a little beaten up but will straighten up OK.

For comparison here is a picture of one I have fitted with an Al -8 breather fitting against a stock cover fitted with a steel fitting.

Total saving 452g 

[spanners]

we are beginning to get down to the point were the free speed from weight saving runs out and it gets harder work and costs a lot more, , another 5 kilos can be had from thinking about your clothing, i see drivers with they're day clothes on under their overalls, complete with belt!!  i always air out my race suit after qualies, as all the sweat is in it, one day ill weigh it wet lol, all the latest o/alls are ever lighter, and a pro lite harness loses 1.2 kilos over a 'clubman' spec steel fittings one with 3" webbing and crutch straps, they are heavy,  these and a carbon seat mean speed that shows on the stop watch over one lap, a huge gain over 15 laps. ive even binned the eye bolts for the harness tails, and now wrap them round the rear cage cross bar, and it must only be a mater of time before someone makes a carbon race approved hat for less then a grand sterling.

[Mangokid]

Still love this thread, BUT I'd like to know more about the drilled stock VW rods. Are they still alive?

[markvo]

The drilled rods are still running every day! Mark Voegtly

[Mangokid]

The drilled rods are still running every day! Mark Voegtly

Nice to know Thanx.