Narrow beams - wtf?

[Chuck Fryer]

How do you guys that run narrow beams deal with the crappy way they drive? I have installled a 2" narrow beam on my 65 ghia and the turning radius blows goats! At full turn it lumps like a car with a spool. I got this beam as a package deal and am thinking about going with a full size beam.

[louisb]

I have a 2 inch narrowed beam on the '67 bug and yes the turning radius sucks. I can't imagine what one of those beams with 4 or 6 inches whacked ot of them turn like. Unfortunately, its the only way to get the tires to fit under the fenders with the dropped spindles & disk brakes. If I could get the tires to fit without I would go back to a stock beam.

--louis

[Speed-Randy]

with disc brakes you have to, if youre running drums go back to stock width. running your wheels tucked to far in is just LAME

[Rennsurfer]

God bless you guys. I'm still tryin' to figure out why someone would want to make their car handle worse in trade for looks.

 

Stock beam = the way to go. But... to each their own.

[Chuck Fryer]

I guess I should make it clear that this was part of a package deal, it was NOT my first choice for the car!

[John Rayburn]

You don't have to do any of that stuff. I run stock width German beam with sway away adjusters. Stock spindles, disc brakes and everything fits, handles ,has stock like ride and looks normal.

[Rocket-Racing]

There are different reasons for running narrowed beams.. I can't stand the tucked in look where the front wheels are hidden under the car. Just don't get it..
But there are more justified reasons. If using dropped spindles and discs it's a must with most wheels. In that case I would drop the dropped spindles  and just use adjusters.
Then there's the vintage mag wheel offset problem.. I've been running a 2" narrowed beam on my '57 for years because it's the only way to mount the old Rocket wheels besides staying stock height and having them outside the fenders..
Yes, the turning radius is decreased but that doesn't bother me much. You get used to it, the only times I think about it is when I drive another bug that turns as it should.
The thing that can be a pain is bump steer. As it's not my spindles that have the offset but the wheels I have the center of the wheel way out there from the spindle. That can make for some interesting moves when you hit a big bump or hole at high speeds..

The picture shows how hopeless the offset is. We're talking 5" wheels, short axles and 2" narrowed beam.. The front track is still wider than stock..

[Cornpanzer]

Chuck,
you shouldnt be having the jerky turning.  That sounds like an alignment issue to me.

[Chuck Fryer]

I did the ole tried and true tape measure alignment on the car. I goes straight when you let go of the wheel at 70+, but I can check it again. Guess I will add that to the list of things to do.

[Sarge]

Gee, I thought it was just me.  I don't feel so bad now!  Love that Renfree plate frame...I did time in the parts dept. in 1973.

[Zach Gomulka]

The GTV rubs the outside edge if I take a corner fast, or I have a passenger, or any combination thereof. I am hoping that a HD sway bar will solve my problem without having to dork the beam.
Drop spindles are a must for me... They drive so much better, and I hate how the front wheels get pushed forward when you lower a car with only adjusters.

[Rick Meredith]

You don't have to do any of that stuff. I run stock width German beam with sway away adjusters. Stock spindles, disc brakes and everything fits, handles ,has stock like ride and looks normal.

John are you running ball joints or king/link?

[Bryan67]

I`ve had two cars and installed 3 beams in other cars. The narrowest was a 2.5 inch beam in my 67. Never had and problems with radius at all. Now, I would never go any narrower than that and am not into the tricycle beam look at all but its the only way to go if you are going to run drop spindles and/or disc brakes.

[John Rayburn]

You don't have to do any of that stuff. I run stock width German beam with sway away adjusters. Stock spindles, disc brakes and everything fits, handles ,has stock like ride and looks normal.

John are you running ball joints or king/link?

                                                             King/ link.

[Turtle001]

There are different reasons for running narrowed beams.. I can't stand the tucked in look where the front wheels are hidden under the car. Just don't get it..
But there are more justified reasons. If using dropped spindles and discs it's a must with most wheels. In that case I would drop the dropped spindles  and just use adjusters.
Then there's the vintage mag wheel offset problem.. I've been running a 2" narrowed beam on my '57 for years because it's the only way to mount the old Rocket wheels besides staying stock height and having them outside the fenders..
Yes, the turning radius is decreased but that doesn't bother me much. You get used to it, the only times I think about it is when I drive another bug that turns as it should.
The thing that can be a pain is bump steer. As it's not my spindles that have the offset but the wheels I have the center of the wheel way out there from the spindle. That can make for some interesting moves when you hit a big bump or hole at high speeds..

The picture shows how hopeless the offset is. We're talking 5" wheels, short axles and 2" narrowed beam.. The front track is still wider than stock..

+1

[Mike Maize]

Chuck are you running dropped spindles? I ask because I have only ever had this problem with one car and it didn't run dropped spindles. After wasting an ENTIRE day on it...I concluded that the angle of the tie rods is exaggerated by both shortening and torsion adjustment lowering. One of either has never made a noticable affect (like you mentioned) on the steering of any of the bugs I have modified. However the car without the dropped spindles hops/drags a tire on tight turns. The Ackerman angle is just too affected by short and exagerrated angle tie rods. I suspect, although I haven't tried it yet, that a tie rod flip kit would make it FAR less noticable.  My 2inch beam with lowering spindles works as well as any stocker I have driven. My 3 inch beam on my gasser look 67 has a slightly decreased turning radius but NO hoppy/dragging B.S and still handles OK over 100MPH. In my experience spending a lot of time setting my steering stops as far as possible before it rubs yeilded big rewards on the turning radius in both cars. Let me know if you figure it out....I have always wanted to get that "other" car I was talking about straightned out

[louisb]

I have the flip kit on my '67 and found I could not use it since my car is not super low. The pass side tie rod hit the bottom of the gas tank at ride height.

--louis

[Chuck Fryer]

Chuck are you running dropped spindles? I ask because I have only ever had this problem with one car and it didn't run dropped spindles. After wasting an ENTIRE day on it...I concluded that the angle of the tie rods is exaggerated by both shortening and torsion adjustment lowering. One of either has never made a noticable affect (like you mentioned) on the steering of any of the bugs I have modified. However the car without the dropped spindles hops/drags a tire on tight turns. The Ackerman angle is just too affected by short and exagerrated angle tie rods. I suspect, although I haven't tried it yet, that a tie rod flip kit would make it FAR less noticable.  My 2inch beam with lowering spindles works as well as any stocker I have driven. My 3 inch beam on my gasser look 67 has a slightly decreased turning radius but NO hoppy/dragging B.S and still handles OK over 100MPH. In my experience spending a lot of time setting my steering stops as far as possible before it rubs yeilded big rewards on the turning radius in both cars. Let me know if you figure it out....I have always wanted to get that "other" car I was talking about straightned out

Mike-

No dropped spindles at this time, but I might try that route. They would move the wheels out just enough and also give a much better ride. I guess that will be something to do over the winter.

[Mike Maize]

Hey Chuck, I'll bet it will also cure the spool feeling too. .....

[Hotrodvw]

Weird.............i run a 2' beam, but w/ CB's wide 5 disc brakes.  The turning radius doens't seem that bad to me......the ride on the other hand...

[Neil Davies]

Weird.............i run a 2' beam, but w/ CB's wide 5 disc brakes.  The turning radius doens't seem that bad to me......the ride on the other hand...

2' - a full 24 inches narrower than stock?! No wonder the ride isn't that great! Seriously though, do you also have the dropped spindles with the beam and discs? Because that's the set up I've got for my split and I thought it should be ok!

[Mike Lawless]

Chuck
We run a 2" narrowed beam on Cindy's convertible Ghia, link pin with dropped spindles and 4 1/2" flat four repop fuchs. That car rides and handles as well or better than any VW I've ever owned. However, it's still low enough to where the front tires (145 Firestones) rub the fenders at full lock.

 If you don't go the drop spindle route, perhaps the other suggestion of flipping the tie rods to the underside of the steering arms would help.

[Hotrodvw]

Weird.............i run a 2' beam, but w/ CB's wide 5 disc brakes.  The turning radius doens't seem that bad to me......the ride on the other hand...

2' - a full 24 inches narrower than stock?! No wonder the ride isn't that great! Seriously though, do you also have the dropped spindles with the beam and discs? Because that's the set up I've got for my split and I thought it should be ok!

Yeah yeah yeah.....Narrowed 2 INCHES.     I am using Cb's drop spindles, and discs.  I think I'll end up swpping the 2" for a 3 or 4 inch.....I've gotta do some measuring first. 

[Clinton DdK]

My 56 sedan seam to have a real nice turning radius with a 3" narrowed beam and a Quaife LOL

[danny gabbard]

just something to check, when putting beam together with urethane bushing's  hone or ream so trailing arms do not have to be hammered back in , stock they slid in but tight and rotated freelly. if not it could be part of the rigid ride , and the shorter but stiffer torstion bars. you can get rid of them to balance that problem. just my no cent's

[louisb]

  Bet that has the turning radius of the QE2.

--louis

[Donny B.]

That falls into the category of "I'm stupid and I can prove it!"

[Rennsurfer]

Now THIS person has the right idea... if you're gonna narrow the front beam, why not go all of the way?

Take it to the upmost hilt. Didn't think that many of those types of cars existed outside of the U.S. That's the first late model that I've seen um... "slammed."

[speedwell]

That falls into the category of "I'm stupid and I can prove it!"

i agree don 
f¤#k hoodride  rust is a crime 

[Cheesepanzer]

Now THIS person has the right idea... if you're gonna narrow the front beam, why not go all of the way?

Oh, I thought you meant...

"If you're gonna narrow the front beam, why not crack open a beer."