The Cal-look Lounge

Some time ago I started collecting parts for my new engine. It will go to my lowered Thing and will be used as a weekend warrior, ocassional longer trips and strip.

So far I have:

new magnesium case, AS21, bronze bushed lifter bores, shuffle pins, full flow, cut for 90.5 register, steel inserts instead of alt. tower studs

Kolbenschmidt bearings (all mains, con rods, double thrust cam)

FK-8 cam, clearanced, with deburred edges of lifter lobes which were very sharp from production

CB lightweight lifters with  loctited internal snap ring



forged 4340 crank, within tolerances, inspected by a reputable shop, along with 12.5 pounds lightened flywheel and 6 pounds CB Equalizer pulley. Every part balanced separately and then balanced all together with my KEP1 springplate

CB billet steel on steel straight cuts

94mm Mahle liners turned for 90.5/92mm register

schadek 26 mm pump from Jim Ratto and a stash of Fram HP1 filters

CB 1.4 rockers

010 distributor with Bosch blue coil for start, maybe I will add CDI later

what is in research:

rods - will use balanced H beams and considering notching them for squirting oil on the underside of pistons to help cooling. Unfortunately I wasn´t aware of engine case squirters mod when ordering my case

pistons - Mahles? AAs? Wisecos? Are you familiar with the mod when a channel is drilled from oil slinger ring to the piston pin boss to help oiling a bit?

After I put this together, aiming for 9.5:1 compression, I´ll go with either Steve Tims Stage 2 or DRD´s L6 heads, DRLA 45s or IDAs but that is future. Cooling will be stock, Thing shroud with added venturi ring from EFI doghouse shroud. 1 5/8 exhaust, probably Sidewinder.



Chassis is following: sitting on AB beetle gearbox, Type 3 rear drums, Rhino urethane mounts, Mohr mid mount /loud as hell, Cofap oil shocks all around, urethane springplate grommets, urethane steering coupler and shifting coupler, Berg shifter, beetle beam with adjusters, stock width, Ghia disc brakes,HD sway bar, camber compensator.

Original steel 5.5 Sprintstars in the back and 4.5 in front,Pirelli P6 185/65 rear, Pirelli 145/65 front.  ;D

wow VERY cool! 8)

Your from Poland?

Mahle pistons will be fine,Wiseco's are better but more expensive.Remember to use the B type pistons for your 82 stroke and use a longer rod like a 5.5 rod.Your engine will be a bit wider but no problem in your thing i guess.

Succes with your build 8)

I already have 5.4 rods with VW journals so that is what I have to work with. Currently I´m running a stock singleport 1500 with Kadrons, Scat linkage and 019 distributor, along with Bugpack header. I´ll add 1.4 rockers for the next season untill my big engine will be ready.

The shorter rod will work better with a heavy car. Good choice.

Hey the hi Po scene is growing quite fast in Poland ;)

181 have funn with the build good luck :)

That's a great looking Thing, 181, and it should be a ton of fun with the engine you're building.  I built a '74 Acapulco Thing for my fiance last year.

Hi guys,

I´m curious who is runing these pushrods in their hi-po engine? Please share your valvetrain combo and experience and if you are using straight and tapered version.

I´m deciding on what to use in my engine, I don´t like the extra added weight of Cr-Mo pushrods.

my valvetrain combo is:

2276ccm
FK8 cam
CB lightweight ligters
CB 1.4 rockers
42x37 valves
dual valve springs (Steve Tims Stage 2s)

Thank you.

Jan

i am using jaycee chromoly pushrods with cb 1.4 rockers,
the pushrods are stronger than aluminium ones, i just wanted to be sure, thats why i took them...
no problems so far, i think the valves start floating at 7500 in my car,
with heavy pushrods , heavy lifters and big valves and vw od springs, i m pleased with them :)
the springs are quite new, but i want to change them every two years or so..
doesnt the redline drop when the springs soften up?

cheers, Peter

I was also thinking about JayCee pushrods with an FK10 in my future 2276cc :)

Well I messed up the question above. Originally I meant if anybody here is using Aircooled.net HD alu pushrods. Got some interesting and head-up responses on other (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=337492) forum.

Now I´m undear research of possibilities of my future exhaust. i´m set on 1 5/8 size and I WANT to keep my lower engine tins and thermostat. It seems that there are three possibilities:

Gene Berg GB 933S header "unobtainable"
Aircooled.net merged header with flanged J tubes (http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=MEH0026&cartid=)
have the exhaust custom made somewhere

I will just go with A1 lowdown :)

Now I´m mocking up the crank and I have a problem. Crank is a generic chinese 82mm forged crank and I´m using an installation kit from Bugpack which includes two woodruff keys for crank gears. I can hardly press them in to their keyways with my hand and I dont want to force them in BFH style. Am I suposed to heat the crank, freeze the keys for better installation, or can I lightly sand the keys for an exact press-in fit? Thanks.

if i'm correct you're supposed to heat the gears.

i sanded one side of the keys just enough so i could tap them in with a hammer

thanks ruff, that is what I´m gonna do

I measured the keyways and the keys and they are out for 0.2 mm! Talk about press fit :o I have to sand them down.

I polish lightly (with 400 wet/dry) only if they are REALLY tight going in. I use a small nylon hammer to drive them in. Be careful some aftermarket keys are tight and sometimes they will "peel" and you'll get a burr that sheds off key after you drive it in. Could cause a (big) problem.
Yes the gears have to be heated to install. If the cam gear goes on "easy" without heating, you've got BIG trouble.

have fun

To heat the gear up I use a piece of 1/4" steel plate on the gas hob in the kitchen! drop the gear on that and it heats up without any direct contact with the flame. I've also heard of people using the hotplate of a coffee maker - I've got one of those too!

Soo gentlemen..no I have brand new set of KS bearings and on the thrust set of bearings there are no tangs to fix the position of the shell in the case half.

-should I try to create one
-should i leave it as it is?
-should I leave it as it is and use thin smear of Loctite bearing retainer between shell and case half?

Thanks,

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SZH9yj4wRjI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/zcJi1I3W1Kk/s720/DSC00415.JPG)

doublepost
 ::)

just install them,
no need for glue ;)

That's a "Oops" on the cam bearings.
Yes, you need to create a "tang" on one of the thrust bearings.
Sounds like you are a handy guy, so this shouldn't be too much of an issue to handle yourself with some home made tools for the job.

My comments on your valve trane:

the measured cam lift will never live up to the advertised .382". Unless you paid extra money for a "blueprinted cam", you will find that the cam measures less. .360" would not suprise me.

This is not such a bad thing.
With your current rockers, that puts valve lift in the .500-.510" range.
That lift will work real nicely with your spring setup that you have.

If you had much more lift, then you would be killing your valve springs much faster anyways.

That's a sweet ride you have dude. I love it.
You are gonna put a hurting on some people with a 2276 in the back.
Rock on...
 

Oops i fucked up :)
sorry

here I´m again with my annoying question. I´m still not sure of correct answer and need an educated view on this. I´m not so sure if the deck height on a VW engine is simply the distance between top of the cylinder to the top of the piston.

Deck height is a distance between top of the piston and the quench area in the head right? IF I set up the deck height on a mocked up engine to zero and install the head without any shims and spacers, the deck height would be zero - right? So I need to use a cylinder spacer or a head shim of to put my deck height to desired 0.040-0.060 between top of the piston and quench area in the head.

BUT what if I use a 043 casting, which alrady has a 0.040 step in its casting, I assume it works as a spacer and it put my deck height to 0.040 right?

Common belief is that I do not count the height of the step to my deck height, but if I add a 0.040 spacer under my cylinder or copper shim under my head, it puts my deck height to 0.080, whis is "unhealthy" and not ideal, effectivity and performance goes to hell.

Can anybody explain this to me as a first time stroker builder?

My build is 82x94, 5.4 rods, flat top Mahle pistons.

My distance from top of the piston to top of the cylinder on mocked up shortblock is 0.015 (piston is in the cylinder, not out of the cylinder) so far and i have ported 043 heads on the way from head porter. The head chamber volume (quench area+step area is) 57cc. Now what should I do? I would like to have a compression ratio close to 9.5:1 give or take.

Please let me know what should I do, am I completely wrong with my uneducated theory?

hello,
on my engine,
i did like this:
install shims under the barrel so the pistontop sits flush with the cylinder
then i installed 1.5 mm copperhead gaskets to get a deck of 1.5 mm
so deckheight for me is 1.5 mm ( in the manual of the deck height measuring tool,
the say a min. of 1.5 mm is needed so the piston dont kiss the head )
doesnt say anything about a step in the head ,
but common sense to me says you have to add the step to calcyulate deckheight;
because with the compression r

sorry i fucked up my post
i wanted to say:
because this step is not a part of the chamber
as a last sentence

Well, Steve Tims recommended to use 0.040" head shims to achieve desiret comp. ratio and forget it.

I decided to share some pics of my engine build here: http://picasaweb.google.com/181.2276/2276#

Nothing major happened so far, but last week I´m taking my parts to balancer so it will start to be serious :-)

Feel free to comment.

ooh yeah, I lost my shop so all assembly work will happen in my apartment :-) Also added a bit of controversy to the name of this topic.

one angry kitty, went sterilisation on Friday so he needs some kind of--errrm..cooling? :-D
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sb1zS58x55I/AAAAAAAABDc/u5QmUy93yPg/s800/DSC00562.JPG)

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sb6wU6n6iNI/AAAAAAAABFo/0Yxwb_fKB5U/s800/DSC00571.JPG)

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sb6wQ-kWTQI/AAAAAAAABFg/ki0nnW2ih4g/s800/DSC00570.JPG)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sb6wOgmqwtI/AAAAAAAABFQ/BS0dXrtxtEM/s800/DSC00567.JPG)

tossed away brazilian oil suction tube, replaced with german steel

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SZ29kWyvHOI/AAAAAAAAAis/SvJJakTqg4U/s800/DSC00451.JPG)

CB lifters loctited

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SbAq_PRH9gI/AAAAAAAAA1k/wz-sy2-W92I/s800/DSC00518.JPG)

H beam notched rod

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SbwCJ1aYqhI/AAAAAAAABAA/iApkIh54RAs/s800/DSC00554.JPG)

CB equalizer balanced (out for 4 grams, Cr_mo flywheel was out for 6 grams and 4340 82 mm crank was out for another 6 grams)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SbbJ85QbOWI/AAAAAAAAA8g/xg0JqNeUOZM/s800/DSC00540.JPG)

Hi Jan,

nice progress. Why did you notch your rods? I have seen this trick on the flange main bearing notched by gene berg to get more oil-flow on the thrust side..
Very interisting...

Greetz,Felix

Well this process was recommended in one of VW factory service bulletins and was recommended for application when rebulding a Type 4 engines. Its purpose is cooling the underside of pistons by splashing oil on them and I believe that a Type 1 engine can also benefit from this mod. Also, with notched rod, you can run tighter side clearances (not my case I have 0.3mm on each rod).

this is one topic I started on other forum focused on rod notching (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=319027&highlight=notching)

Thanks`s very much for the good info.
That`s a very cool mod and it makes asolutly sense to me. Did you nocth your rods on both sides?
Always nice to see that some motors are not only thrown together without the important detailing...

So I will notch my rods for my notch  ;)

yes, the rod is notched on both sides and no I can not afford to make mistakes  ;D

interesting Jan,I am also planning my 2276cc buily in my room  :D

Hey,did you get your heads?

Not yet but I´m in contact with Greg. Greg has a broken arm right now so I´m not sure how it will work out  ;D But I contacted him to check and if needed to sort out uniformity of valve stem height, I realyy don´t want to tear into their work :-) And how is your progress Zvonimir?

thanks for the heads up ;) These are traditional kitchen clock from 50-60s, I plan to set them to various time zones for sure. Los Angeles..Tokyo..always useful to know..  ;D

This is my first "oh sh*t!" situation:

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/ScAevcwC27I/AAAAAAAABHA/APm61YaMbb8/s720/DSC00574.JPG)

clearance between counterweight and case is around 0.05" measured with feeler gauge. Not much and part of it will go away when I set the endplay. Unfortunately The crank is already balanced and there´s not much meat to take away from the case..

neat mod to rods. I notch # 1 main on thrust surface on every one that goes out of my garage, cam thrusts too. Never done the rods like that. Berg said it was a way to run tight side clearances on rods (to keep pin bushing in line) but still keep oil flowing across rod bearing.
I've run into c/w getting close to case saddles even on 69mm... just use a flap sander and buff until you have .040" (with crank in set endplay position).

I built a motor in my living room in an A frame I was renting in Quincy CA. Funny.... timing gear on the stove, crank in the freezer, and kitchen table full of Loctite and Elring K2 tubes and piles of parts. Girlfriend wasn't happy. Too bad. ::)
 ;D

Jim, how much to you notch the thrusts on cam?

I will post a pic later. I would say they are .020" deep if that. I use a 3 corner fine jewel file, then polish for end clearance with 400 wet dry

Waiting for my sump,bearings and few other things to arrive.Not doing much really,lack of time :-[

new pics

breather tower:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SdEj3Q_kaTI/AAAAAAAABOI/e_VRh6SQ0DI/s720/DSC00637.JPG)

long bolt, securing washer and Loctite for securing the oil suction tube and deep sump:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SdPTbwhQspI/AAAAAAAABUM/trC-t5-Kc30/s512/DSC00654.JPG)

crankcase block off:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SdPTclaZQLI/AAAAAAAABTk/vki2nNV3hL0/s720/DSC00645.JPG)

Nice! I like the crankcase block off!. What kind of breather tower is that?

The blockoff is simply a stock blockoff from a new hardware kit which I painted with hi-temp, I removed the studs in the case and used M8 bolts instead.

That is the Latest Rage breather tower, beadblasted and painted, with old style oil cap. Very nice breather tower for 30 bucks and a little work...

very nice breather tower dude!
never noticed it, gotta have one  ;D  sorry  ::) ;)

just go for it you wont be disappointed and it cost only a fraction of what "big names" breathers cost..

proberly a bit late at this stage,but check that pulley is nice and tight on th crank,also I put the woodruff keys in the freezer for a night or so,they are real tight,the top one nearest the pulley usually fits easier as the crank is hot from the gears going on when I fit it,all looks good,hope it goes together ok :)

cheers richie 

so, what to do if the pulley is not tight on the crank?
i guess i once had a major oil leak there when i could slide a cheap pulley in easily? makes for a nice oil fountain in the engine bay ;)

just found out it won't clear my tayco IDA linkage... :(

throw it in the junk pile and buy one that fits tight :o
,

I have seen the heavy pulleys come off from not fitting tight enough,with a regular weight aluminium one its not so critical but must still need to be pulled on or heated to fit onto the crank

cheers richie

the one i had on my previous was loose.
my current pulley for the next engine should be pretty tight. will check this weekend.

Thanks Richie, I installed the pulley on the crank for trial fit and also for balancing, the fit is tight so I had to use a puller to take it off. Anyway I´ll use a large beleville washer from JayCee and longer pulley bolt with Loctite threadlocker.

I´ll be sporting CSP steel linkage so no prob here :-)

that sounds good :)always a pain to get off

cheers richie

So, some small progress made today. I closed the shortblock and no, I didn´t forgot cam plug and right half lifters:-) I mated the halves using Hylomar Aerograde, blue stuff which never completely dries. I can remove the excessive Hylomar on the engine case using sharp knife. I cleaned all with compressed ait before assembly and after tightening the case bolts everything turns freely and smoothly.

I threw away Scat delivered hoseclamp extension (a joke) and my own from brass pressed on and Loctited:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sej7x4wW3rI/AAAAAAAABZo/qIx5KBhi6CU/s800/DSC00692.JPG)

cam grease:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sej7zB4Wj4I/AAAAAAAABZw/WSxe8nKpMGA/s800/DSC00693.JPG)

shortblock assembled, 010 with 6500 rpm limiter because I´m young and stupid
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sej70cT7HCI/AAAAAAAABZ4/BcBOkJoJ_Vw/s800/DSC00694.JPG)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sej71RDg7AI/AAAAAAAABaA/h6Wlx05Sbnk/s800/DSC00695.JPG)

Your Engine is looking good.  8)

Do you two ever have romantic dinners over wine and candle light ? If not, you should ;D

Now I have a real world question. Today I finally mocked up the shortblock with cylinders and came up with zero deck height.

I will use my Steve Tims Stage 2 heads with 57cc chamber and 0.35 step in the head.

I know that I have to keep 0.040 abolute minimum distance between piston top and closest place in the head, so I have to use 0.040 copper head gasket. That puts my compression ratio to 9.9:1 and my deck height to 0.075, because my piston top will be 0.040+0.035 from the quench area in the head. That´s already not ideal.

If I would like a lower compression and I use a 0.060 copper head gasket that puts my CR to 9.4:1 and my deck height to unhealthy 0.095.

I think that everything under 10:1 CR is fine with my Engle FK8.

What would you recommend? Thanks, Jan

what octane fuel can you get? will use? 9.9/1 with good pump gas and VW casting heads will be fine,I have run 10.3/1 with regular shell optimax without any detination problems :)

cheers richie

I planned to use our 95 RON regular but I can step up to 98 RON or 100 RON fuel.

It would be better if you could use 98 ron,but I was also thinking of running my future motor on 95 ron.

So Jan,what will you do with the deck height then?

Leave it as is or?

Still trying to solve this with Greg Tims, I´m not decided yet. It would be great to have my deck (quench) height around healthy 0.05 and that is not possible with the step included in Stage 2s, if this step´s inside diameter is smaller then outside diameter of Mahle piston. But if they remove the step, some slight enlargement of chamber will be needed. I´m lost in this..

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1349.0;attach=25574;image

Is this step in the Stage 2s cut for internal diameter of 94mm piston outside diameter? If yes, it can act as a built in shim and I´ll just add a thin 0.015 barrel spacer to achieve my desired number!

Zvonimir, if you have a 94 mm piston handy can you measure it for me?

I think .020 is the thinest shim readily available,they are not very good though,the thinest I would use is .030,and I thought they left the step in the head as it is not very strong there,the extra material helps with this

cheers richie

so basically you say that the step shouldn´t be removed? I hoped that if they enlarge the ID of the step to be larger then OD of the Mahle piston, that I can safely use it as a part of my "shim stack"

I think if you put a cylinder inside the head and look down it the step shouldnt interfere with the piston at all, i have had a dish put into the piston to solve this exact problem you have,when you want tight deck but a certain compression and there is no extra cc available in the head,the last ones I had done on mahle 94mm pistons were 7.5 cc

cheers richie

Hey Jan,

I measured it for you.

Step cut ID is something like 91.5 mm close to 92,and the piston OD is 93.43 as stated on the head of piston

piston head does not fit into the step ID at all,on both heads

Thanks a lot, that is bad. I can´t use the step as a part og my "shim" stack so time for plan b.

and what is your plan B?

I was thinking of removing the step in my head,I don't like it.Donnow how much it would really affect the stenghtness of that area,but as I read in www.thesamba.com forums,many Volks have removed it,and are using heads withouth the problem

Did you maybe talk with Greg Tims about this step?What does he reccomend?

When I was ordering my heads on phone,ha asked me whether I would like to have this step or not,and I said to him to leave it,until I see what deck will I gain,and now,as I will be at the same situation as you,or nearly similar situation,using 82 stroke and 5.4 rods,I am thinking of removing it.

it also interests me,how many cc's remains in the head when the step is removed,does it affect the cc's?

I found on other forum, that it is 57 cc with the step and circa 48-49 cc without I have no plan "B" yet  ;D

Yeah edit: I wrote Greg if they can remove the step and enlarge the chamber to 56 cc at the same time. That is the only way I can retain correct, not excessive deck height of 0.06 and a correct compression ratio of 9.5:1 at the same time. My learning curve is slooowww:-)

any news?  :)

No move in engine build, need to sort out the compression ratio and quench height stuff. I´m conversating with Greg via e-mail I´ll let you know as soon as I have the solution ;)

Any news? :)

Not much Zvonimir.. Steve will remove the step from my heads and will reshape the chambers to 53 cc (which is the maximum on 043 casting and 94 bore to keep the combustion chamber nice). If I use a 0.06 copper gasket it will make exact 10.0:1 CR so I´m deciding if I can live with this compression ratio or if I should dish my pistons Richie recommended above.

What do you guys suggest? Can I live with 10.0:1  CR with FK-8 cam and 95 RON pump gas?

My engine will feature an S:Cat shroud :-D

(not mine quote, but funny as hell..)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SftvCbvyxuI/AAAAAAAABjo/OQmP8zQluEU/s720/DSC00740.JPG)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SiRDrvVvhaI/AAAAAAAABts/TzLx6OvBpRo/s640/DSC00843.JPG)

very nice to hear that you are almost at the end of competion

have you measured pushrod lenght,and set up the geometry,or that has to follow?

so this is a Scat oil sump

did you have any problems mounting it to the case,is it hard to get to the studs wit a wrench?and what kind of studs did you use?

Zvonimir, I received my heads yesterday (!) so I only kinda mocked it up to take a new breath and find power (didn´t touched the engine for one month waiting for the heads) so valve geometry fun is ahead!

No problems with Scat sump and very easy to mount with some mods follow my pic:

I used Scat delivered bolts for mounting the sump to the case but used high grade long bolt through the case where the suction bascet attaches (you have to do it when the case is split)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Seok-2FD6aI/AAAAAAAABdI/VpHzg1MF3sQ/s640/DSC00710.JPG)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SdPTbwhQspI/AAAAAAAABUM/trC-t5-Kc30/s400/DSC00654.JPG)

I advice i can give:
dont let the cat come too close to the engine,
i thought i cleaned everything properly during assembly,
but when i cleaned the oberg, i found a lot of white hair!!
and there s only one guy in my house that has it:)
so watch out !

Peter

Thanks Ruff, I realise there are kitty hair flying everywhere in the apartment so I keep the engine wrapped in blanket when I don´t work on it. It is time consuming but I´m anal when it is about cleanliness :-D I also clened all parts with compressed air (yes I brought my compressor to the kitchen) and I vacuum clean all parts before installation from all dust it may collect.  ;D

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SckuUkMev_I/AAAAAAAABM0/xRMwLQK2zl4/s640/DSC00636.JPG)

Well this is a flange of CB Big Bœuf manifold ported for Steve Tims heads. A lot of meat is left untouched.

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SigjDJfvOeI/AAAAAAAABwc/P82XE7VXIk4/s640/DSC00850.JPG)

and this is a view of right side cylinder tin (german original) untouched and unmodified.

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sigi_RLs89I/AAAAAAAABwM/9vX24BJpTF0/s640/DSC00846.JPG)

My question is - if I transfer the shape of the original opening to the flange on the manifold and grind off excessive meat, will the manifolds give the carbs enough support and will there be anough sealing surface? I cannot bend the tin inwards because stock deflector inside is already almost touching the most outwards cooling fin on the head.

hello,

the sealing surface will be enough. you have also to clear the area around the nuts on your manifolds( where you screw the nuts to fit the manifolds to the heads) there is no flat surface and no place for the nut to turn free.

dirk

Yes I noticed that that area of the CB Big Beefs you mention is very unfinished and gives no correct seating surface for manifold nuts. I will get back with pics of finished product later. Thank you Dirk!

I modified my big beef intakes today. Cooling is crucial for me, as the car is street driven driver, so I do not want to heavily cut and mot my upper cylinder tins. This mod allowed me to use these intakes only with some light tapping on upper cylinder tins.

this is typical intake of 043 Stage 2´s from Steve Tims.

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SimVbZUL91I/AAAAAAAABzU/jPZhGv4vqIM/s640/DSC00861.JPG)

this is intake gasket cut to shape of intake flange on the right, on the left is size and shape of CB Big Beef flange gasket

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SimVaJCVAmI/AAAAAAAABzQ/GltlPLgXBHI/s640/DSC00860.JPG)

I then copied new shape to the manifold

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SimVX8w3ejI/AAAAAAAABzI/Hy1ubJlVNK0/s640/DSC00863.JPG)

cut, grind..beer..grind again...in fact as a final step I bolted both manifolds together, flange to flange, and grinded them together to keep the shape the same on both

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SirPr074g3I/AAAAAAAAB0g/Um67mwnWOl0/s640/DSC00871.JPG)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SirP7AQjLII/AAAAAAAAB0k/3N39mJQhlZI/s640/DSC00872.JPG)

and also created seating surface for my CSP intake nuts (10 mm hex 8 mm thread)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SirPqEyMK9I/AAAAAAAAB0Y/KxZ7IykkE-s/s640/DSC00867.JPG)

good work!!!

dirk

Your manifolds and tin turned out really nice! I didn't get a chance to finish mine yet or weld the deflectors into the tin, but there's always tomorrow :). Keep at it!

-Andy

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Si16iG3tWhI/AAAAAAAAB4M/na6zST93jWE/s640/DSC00883.JPG)

welded FI venturi ring to my Scat shroud

Where did you get the ring? I've been trying to find one...
Nice work by the way!!!

I robbed it from an old doghouse shroud I had lying around. But try these guys they make repros:

http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/Venturi_Ring.html

Hello Jan,

are you using total seal rings on your engine build,or just regular rings?

I use only regular Mahle rings and will see how they´ll hold up since I´ve seen mixed opinions on Totalseal..

Jan,

how are your heads out of the box?

are stem heights of all valves the same?

did they come with the pre-shimmed springs,or you have to do it yourself

made some small progress on lower engine tin today. I started with drivers side because it is more complicated. I had to trim the sled tin because it interfered with big turn of tubing from 4th cylinder. That means the industrial tin had to be shortened for a little bit too.

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sl4UQH2yRYI/AAAAAAAACW4/yn306KHkJFo/s640/DSC01202.JPG)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sl4UREwEG9I/AAAAAAAACW8/rxrnn11hkis/s640/DSC01203.JPG)

Then I moved the industrial tin toward the engine so it wont interfere with number 3 J-tube and trimmed a 1/2 inch stripe of tin from the sled tin and made new holes to attach the industrial tin.

Last picture shows how much metal will be added to the industrial tin so it will end under the head.

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sl4USGSoyHI/AAAAAAAACXA/iOWeAi7GrO8/s640/DSC01204.JPG)

very nice dude! but as far as i know, many people don't even run that tin, right?
what kind of pushrod tubes do you have? they look stock, but shiny ;D

these are (cough cough) EMPI (cough) stainles steel windage tubes. As I tried to stay away from EMPI as much as possible, I douldn´t find any other brand stock pushrod tubes. As I use aircooled.net alu HD pushrods, thing inside are very crowded.

I try to use as much stock tin as possible!

Are these stock length pushrod tubes.

yes they are, I only stretched them a bit by hand. Engine is almost stock width with only 2.5mm barrell shim added on each side..

Looks great! You're pretty much at the same step(s) I am at with my 2276. Actually I fitted my lower tin and pushrod tubes a month ago but I did have to snip the sled tin after I converted my heater boxes over. On the last engine I used those Empi stainless pushrod tubes and they worked fine. You shouldn't have any issues with them. After I ground my big beef manifolds and shaped the cylinder head tin, I was still able to fit the German deflector tins to the cylinder head tin cleanly. I also bought the same CSP intake nuts as you mentioned on the other forum that they were easier to install. You were right! Looks great. I will be working on my engine today and hopefully I can get it done soon!

-Andy

quick mockup for my T-shirt. Going for drags with my 1500 kadron singleport again, but I´m getting CLOSER!

modded Scat shroud complete:

added a venturi ring, welded internal vanes to both sides of the outer skin so they won´t fell of by vibrations

made holes for stock ign. wire holders, welded tabs for holding alt. wiring

added threaded inserts for ign. coil bolts

welded and reshaped area around hoover bit to make it seal perfectly

scrubbed and painted everything

added stickers:-)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SpwEqXhhPcI/AAAAAAAACno/fXxMQ-JV4zc/s720/DSC01375.JPG)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SpwEui5YC1I/AAAAAAAACoA/wuW8OG4-nrk/s720/DSC01381.JPG)

Looking good my friend!
Its amazing how thorough you work!
I m sure it will perform flawlessly  :)
You ll have great fun with it, i can assure you :)

Thanks Peter, I enjoy being precise in this engine build.

One extra for Zvonimir:

stock original valve cover can hide 1.4 rockers on FK8 cam. I only welded on breather tube like Berg does and some gasket retaining tabs to the inside..

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SpwEm_LV36I/AAAAAAAACnc/j9pEqD8bvzs/s720/DSC01372.JPG)

I decided to go EDIS:-) So stay tuned. As I invested a lot of time to my Superhawk crotch rocket, the engine hasn´t run yet. My plan is to break it in on the stand with conventional ignition, make repairs that may occur during break in procedure and install it to the car in spring 010.

here is a neat tip for those of you running Dells. You can buy great hex nut mixture screws that can be adjusted  with an opened wrench without removing carbs from the engine! They cost few bucks at Alfa1750 Ebay store and they can save a lot of time!

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SrJmUinFCuI/AAAAAAAACvI/A2TQa6gj7jI/s720/DSC01396.JPG)

Oh well here I come with my stupid question. I never built such a big engine as my 2276 definitely is. How hard is to turn a fresh engine like this? The bottom end turned super nice and smooth but after I added heads with sparklplugs and mainly pushrods (dual vale springs), the engine is really hard to turn by a ratchet. I´m pretty sure nothing binds at the monment, CR is close to 10.5:1..

its normal :)

remove the plugs and you ll see it is much easier

Now I have a question, I´m sure that my 4.37 stock trans will not hold up for a long time, but it has to serve for the engine break-in period. I´m saving cash for a new gearbox and I´m considering this config:

rear tires: 205/65x15 radials
swingaxle
4.12 Ring and pinion
0.82 4th
welded syncros on 3rd and 4th

I´m considering breaking my wallet for a Quaife diff, otherwise I´ll go with superdiff.

The car is a VW Thing/181/Trekker for the street and very, very moderate strip use. My goal is to achieve good freeway speeds and I want my 1/4 mile to happen in first three gears. I hope that the engine will push out around 160 WHP.

(engine specs: 2276, FK-8, 1.4 CB rockers, 5.4 rods, 48 DRLAS, 1 5/8 sidewinder ,42x37 Steve Tims Stage 2 heads)

What are your ideas and advices? 3.88 rp and 0.89 fourth? What about 1st gear? I believe that with power and torque stock first would be very, very short and not useful..I think that I´l inquire KCR, rancho in US and bears and CogBox in UK for prices and will choose the right supplier frome these 4.

IMO, stock 4.12 ratios really can't be beat. Use the late 3.78 2.06 mainshaft, and 1.26, .89 for 3rd and 4th. You can quarter mile in the first 3, then cruise home in 4th :)

are there differences in strength between 3.88 and 4.12 ring and pinion?


Would you prefer new Quaife or refurbished ZF?

3.88 is stronger and I would chose a new quaife over a ZF any day

cheers richie,uk

allrigt so 3.88 rp and 0.89 4th will be a better bet

thanks Richie

my other random question is...stock case, stock gusseted case or Rhino case?

Thanks,

Jan

3.88 will make it a bit doggy off the line compared to a 4.12, or a 4.37 for that matter. If you have a light car with loads of torque it isn't much of an issue... or if you adjust the other gears accordingly to have a similar final drive ($$$). Your choice ;) I like the torque multiplying factor of a 4.12, the 4.37 makes the engine a bit too buzzy at highway speeds for my taste.
From what I've heard the Rhino cases have all the gusseting in the wrong place, good for a mid engine car, but useless for a rear mounted engine. I'd like to hear what the trand pro's say on that one...

I have also heard from more than one tranny builder that the Rhino cases are of softer material than the stock transmission cases.

Good stock case,gusseted if you will use sticky tyres at all?

cheers richie,uk

Rancho now sell a rhino case with extra gusset

http://www.ranchoperformancetrans.com/blog/complete-ranchorhino-case-package/

funny to read your comments are theirs on their website. in their words proper gussetting is then extra gussetting ???

Just re-read and I see that you are putting this all in a type 181... If that's the "case" then type 1 boxes don't get any better than the late single side cover for IRS.

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/medium/2867068.jpg)

as Zach already stated, normally rhino cases have a gusset on top of the case, for when you flip them for sand buggies.
the one rancho sells has an extra bottom gusset..... ;)

I should clarify..my thing is Euro spec military Thing, originally came from factory with pre-67VW bus gearbox with reduction gears, but I lowered the car by installing a swingaxle gerabox from a bug.
Thanks.

Euro 181's had Bus gearboxes? I did not know that. Makes sense, though. Learn something new everyday, thanks ;)

yes, early Things (69-71) had reduction gear bus box and bus 1500 singleport. In 8/1971 they changed the config to IRS, AM gearbox (4.37:1) and 1600DP engine.

I decided to give a try to new red silicone valve cover gaskets from Wolfsburg West.

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SvsXChQVdwI/AAAAAAAAC94/hORlIveSbBk/s640/DSC01585.JPG)

it,ll be interesting to see how you get on with the silicone rocker cover seals.anyone else used these?

OK I decided to come clean with this :-) Because this engine hasn´t been run yet and is still on the engine stand, I decided to get back to rocker geometry. I think I screwed up before and I don´t like it at all.

This is a wipe pattern on the lash caps.

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sy5SUnccI8I/AAAAAAAADn0/TAzdBBmflgA/s640/DSC01987.JPG)

I believe that the pushrods are too short as I´m out on the adjustment screws for maybe 3 1/4 turns.

Keep in mind that I´m a first-timer, make my Christmas and tell me what should I do please:-)

Thanks,

Jan

specs are: FK-8 cam, 1.4:1 CB rockers with appropriate lash caps and their tool steel adjusting screws, 043 castings, heads were made by Steve Tims. I used ALU HD pushrods from AIRCOOLED.NET which will be for sale probably..

Well get a drink, and spend your afternoon reading (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=167378&highlight=valve+geometry)  ;)

Yes I´ve seen that. But that topic is sometimes confused, old pics not showing and it solves many various engine configurations. and sometimes doesn´t give a clear answer.

More Info.

I believe you have a little to much shim under the rockers. Take the smallest shim out, then try it. clean your lash cap and put some Dykem on the lash cap. assemble it back together, then turn the moter around a coulple of times. Take all apart and see where it swiped. Then go from there add or take away shims from under the rockers. Your not far off, the way it looks.

Hi Jan,
check out this:
http://www.pauter.com/RockerInst.htm
It is for pauter rockers but will even work for the CB one´s.
Watch out that you don`t block the oilsupport (adjustment screw to rocker)
(http://lowbugget.com/DSC02541_216x177.JPG)
Are you satisfied with the CB forged rockers? I got mine yesterday and the surface to the lash caps is really raw and coated ??? black which begins to crack on some spots... By the way I am talking about NEW parts...And that "coat" will go into the oil system...WOW, thank`s! All rockers I saw were polished at those spots for good reasons.
The cheapy 1,25 Empi rockers that I had before looked 100% better at that spot.
I want to carefully fine sand & polish the surfaces before installing...Other thing is that there is no oil grove on the rocker shaft where the rocker it self sits.So no complete oiling for the rocker only a spot oiling. Even the cheap solid rocker shafts for the orig.Rockers have that groove!!!
But that`s even the "quality" on most other 1.4/1.25 rockers...So I will make a groove with a lathe were the rockers sit (as original) for complete circle oiling.
Not the quality I would supose for that money. All that blister shit is mainly crap and so far away from plug and play!  >:(

thanks for the advices I´ll try to set it up with thinner shim. I micropolished the contact pad of the rocker to mirror finish before installation, seemed to be rough before. Maybe I´ll cut the oiling grooves to the shafts too it sounds like a good idea! I think I´ve seen the mod on Bob Hoover´s blog too!

Ah, I knew you didn`t missed that point  ;)
Now even done!
Have you got any info`s/experiences about the CB lash caps ? Good or do they wear out?

I wont use the caps any more,
they have a small hole in the center,
and when i refreshed the engine, one of the caps had a crack through the hole,
cracked nearly for the whole diameter,
maybe i did something wrong when fitting them,
but now i use caps that are not that tight on the valve stem anymore

mine CB caps fitted great with a tiny tap of a rubber mallett.

So, I got to this after a longer time.

How does this look? I thinned the rocker spacers a little bit and came up with:

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S0ZXnETTGyI/AAAAAAAADqA/rM6mFsFCZVI/s640/DSC01998.JPG)

And my second stupid question, I probably know the answer, but does the wipe pattern change with the length of the pushrod?

Thanks.

Taller lash caps are available to sort your problem out. The last set I got were from BERG's.

You could also mill about .050 (imperial) or 1.1mm from the rocker stands. I prefer the lash cap option.

Pushrod length doesn't/shouldn't affect the geometry.

Thanks, so you would move the wipe pattern even more down then shown on the last picture?

Jan

Definitely. You're close. A bit more and you're there.

do you remember which ones did you buy?

http://www.geneberg.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=lash&x=0&y=0

GB 368 TS-8
Special cap required for stainless steel valves with Chevy diameter springs and Berg valve spring retainers, 0.270" overall length, 0.130" depth to go over the end of the stem and adds about 0.130" to valve length. These lash caps do not have a groove on the OD.

'normal' caps add about .080

DOUG

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S1dLCrAsc4I/AAAAAAAADsI/DTrVPMg535M/s640/DSC02011.JPG)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S1dLHcRgBuI/AAAAAAAADsU/pySqzQBDl_0/s640/DSC02018.JPG)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SyklXFrYPXI/AAAAAAAADlk/nTiCTX9hxD8/s640/DSC01961.JPG)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S1dLKgRZk2I/AAAAAAAADsk/IGFIuvkkJbQ/s640/DSC02022.JPG)

Love those #211 010's :)

I did not made any progress on the geometry so just some "in the VW mood" pics

so which lash caps do you have on the valves right now?

Hi Zvonimir, how are things going and Happy New Year to you (although I´m late) :)

At this time I still have CB lash caps that were delivered with CB 1.4 rockers. I´m looking for correct thickness material to have thinner shims made.

Ahnendorp in Germany can support very good lash caps in differnet "heights"
http://www.ahnendorp.com/Beetle-typ-1-engineparts-and-machining/Heads-and-Supplies-44/Valve-Caps-HD-german-quality.html (http://www.ahnendorp.com/Beetle-typ-1-engineparts-and-machining/Heads-and-Supplies-44/Valve-Caps-HD-german-quality.html)

Bugpack makes .050 and .080" lash caps too if there is a distributor of their products near you.

http://www.bugpack.com/content.php?id=65

Thanks Brandon for this, our local VW supplier incidentally has some package on the shelf. I´m going to give them a try.

Jan

Saturday is the day!

I´m going to fire it up, but I´m scared to hell something will go kaboom!

I tried my best, studied and asked a lot, and did not made any shortcuts, so we´ll see.

This is my first stroker build.

Wish me luck.

Good luck to you Lounger. And do not worry, it is only a engine. We build to destroy.

Good luck!  You'll love it I'm sure.

"don't worry ,it's just metal"  This is what Jack Sachette told me when we were getting ready fire up a new motor on his dyno.

cool. good luck

this post with video => SOON!

ooh yeah  ;D ;D ;D

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S5K1kSP0g5I/AAAAAAAAD_Q/kRjOY-Gdhow/s640/DSC02081.JPG)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81J7fxKBp78

Yep, and money is just paper - right?  ;)   ;D



oh, and congrats on the start up 181

I´m fascinated. CB rotary pump pushed 100 octane Shell into the bowls, I set up the valves and timing, connected the wiring and the engine fired right up! Brought it to around 2000 and left it there for 20 or so minutes, then idled it and changed revs for maybe another hour. I checked the timing with a timing light in the meantime and set it so now it doesn´t go above 28 BTDC at revs. Checked oil level and oil leaks several times.

The engine wants to rev very qickly but did not want to return to idle so I rechecked the sync on al venturis and both carbs and now things are much better.

I forgot my camera memory card at home so I took only a crappy video with my cellphone.

Also changed idle jets to 65 so now I´m running 180 mains, 65 idles and 40 venturis, does it sound OK?

Awesome work !  8)
 

My best guess is that the jets are to big. I would say 60/160 idle/main, but get it in the car and run some km on it while using a wideband lambda. This will tell you exactly what you need to know.

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S5K1o5aBkKI/AAAAAAAAD_U/F8S4gxuSED4/s640/DSC02080.JPG)

not very representative video I took before carb sync so the whole engine is shaking and before a battery in my old camera went out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvlyqv3MQkI

Loud ticking sound is a rocker axial play, this needs to be sorted out. 10:5:1 running on 100 octane (RON) premium.

congrats Dude ;), sort that klicking noize and it will be grate. how the exhaust sounds for You?

looks super dude!
you WILL enjoy it :)

That's great man, just got mine running on Monday at the dyno, know the feeling of success.

Ted

I still HOPE that the ticking is rockers play. I´m sure that I´m over 0.5mm on some of them, but I just wanted to fire it up. What else could it be? The engine is miles away in my friends shop and I spend this week with thinking about that.

The exhaust is superb, nice fit, rumbly but not too loud!

Is the noise rotional as the motor turns when running? Is it entermitten? Check your rockers like you said, make sure the rocker clears the rocker stands on the heads, Check your distributor, you have the correct shims under the distributor drive gear? An old trick, get a old broom, cut off the broom end, place the one end to where you think the noise is coming from, put your ear on the side or on top and listen, you can hear the going's on in your engine. You might be able to pin point the ticking noise, if ya do, then you can check it out. I got that from a good frien of mine and it WORKS. Ya never know.....
Oh, try taking you belt off and run it then, see if that makes a difference.

Ted

the sound is continuous and speeds up with engine revs. Distributor drive is shimmed for correct play. It is not a knock (journal knock), it is just a ticking and I´m almost sure it comes from rocker boxes. Will sort the rockers play and I will see. Alternator is reconditioned Bosch with new quality bearings, that is not the source. Thanks, Jan

You can run the engine with one or two valve covers off. Place something underneath to catch the oil drips.  Don't rev it up ( you'll find out why when you do so  :D). You can then see what the rockers are doing. I've done this myself without problems.

I reshimmed the sideplay on valve rockers and done the valves again, no signs of loosening the valve lash, that is good. Things got much quieter. I noticed a rub on some pushrods so stock pushrod tubes will have to go in favor of heads-up performance pushrod tubes.

Engine spent another two hours running on the stand. It is perfectly capable of 850 rpm idle, but I let it run between idle and approx 2000 rpm to promote oiling. Engine ran so cool, I´m surprised, I could touch valve covers, oil filter, oil sump after two hours of run without problem.

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S507xrVv_HI/AAAAAAAAEB0/kxpo042DznQ/s640/PICT0090.JPG)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S507nA80FbI/AAAAAAAAEBk/K2hmrdlxvzY/s640/PICT0097.JPG)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6BHAv_nEO8

bark! bark! sounds good ;)
hope you'll be able to drive it soon!

Very nice gas response! Great job.

It will take a while before I take it to chassis dyno. I wonder how much HP can it make?

Quick specs: 2276, FK8 installed straight, 1.4 rockers, Manton pushrods, 42x37 by Steve Tims, 10.5:14 CR, 40 venturies, 1 5/8 exhaust. Is 160 flywheel HP real  ???

No guesses?:-)

I´m gonna put it into the car on saturday, what can I expect?

 ;D

I would be disappointed if it didn´t make at least 160 FW HP. But get that thing on the dyno, guessing leads nowhere.  ;)

Definitely, but it is a nice way to spend time before I tune it and before I take it to the dyno:-)

Well, then I'll give it a shot.

180Hp at the crank.

Great job ! \o/ 8)

Sounds great!

tomorrow is the day! If everything goes well, I´ll have a chance to drive my first VW with a LOT of HP.  ;D

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7iF1KkonQI/AAAAAAAAEHw/EjPTrbVHQzM/s576/04042010045.jpg)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7iwbz_kxmI/AAAAAAAAEIY/2ihZ8AgyInk/s720/04042010052.jpg)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7iwcC0EA6I/AAAAAAAAEIc/Z81Qt3XQbq4/s720/04042010051.jpg)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7iwcfrqamI/AAAAAAAAEIg/gBuKNTNk6pU/s720/04042010049.jpg)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7iwc3-tFRI/AAAAAAAAEIk/PuuIbNomqTg/s720/04042010048.jpg)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7iwdOozdVI/AAAAAAAAEIo/tEuRSYpeYf4/s720/04042010047.jpg)

So those are todays pics of my VW Type 181 with a bit of spice..

Cool,
you ll have fun :)

some more

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7jinfWGAeI/AAAAAAAAEI4/nrftCrTi-6U/s720/04042010054.jpg)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7jinYFAf4I/AAAAAAAAEI8/HLmfUfv3e9Y/s720/04042010055.jpg)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7jin42NZKI/AAAAAAAAEJA/NyBKAnsRst8/s720/04042010056.jpg)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7jioAFEwNI/AAAAAAAAEJE/1Y0k9UqPe1k/s720/04042010057.jpg)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7jioWHHZpI/AAAAAAAAEJI/M7mLNr45p40/s720/04042010058.jpg)

Great 181 !

So,
how does it drive?

It just GOES! ;D

I feel my carbs are rich with 180 mains, although it doesnt smoke black, I ordered a set of 170 and 160 mains to try, also it would deserve a downgrade to 38mm venturies I think.

It runs cool, but it is noisy I think I¨ll have to revisit the rockers again. I have a short geared gearbox, with 4.37:1 ring and pinion so the acceleration is amazing but it completely lacks ability of speed :-)

Today I solved some small oil leaks from VDO sender and l´ll have to reseal the Scat sump but I don¨t mind few drops of oil in my garage. I checked the oil it seems to be clean, no silverish stuff so I hope internals are doing well.

I resynced the carbs today, DRLAs are very very smooth carbs. After I cleaned and relubed the throttle cable, gas pedal and relubed the CSP linkage it has very sharp throttle response and very sensitive gas pedal. It is so sensitive I consider adding another return spring to regain some resistance.

I do not have any comparison as this is my first big engine and there are no strokers around in my country. My plan is to baby it and begin driving with baby steps and a lot of maintenance...

congrats! nice thing also, I would just remove the towel-rails on the front bumper ;)
Kristof

cold air intake, props to my friend David 

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7sY2Ca6ANI/AAAAAAAAEK4/eNQW7x0VDFQ/s800/PICT0102.JPG)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7sY2nocvTI/AAAAAAAAEK8/gdw1Tz6stzk/s800/PICT0101.JPG)

So I have maybe 200 miles on my new engine and it runs great, really great..well until yesterday today. The engine developed an oil leak on flywheel main seal, and the leak is big. It is so big that the oil got onto my clutch disc and the car leave maybe 3-4 inch puddle under engine.

The main seal I used before was German red seal, installed all the way in the case using a tool, inner lip lubed with universal grease. It doesn´t show any signs of wear or damage!

So today I removed the engine, degreased everything, installed another red seal, along with new flywheel o-ring this time flush with the case surface, only to get the very same leak. I also checked the return channel from seal chamber to the engine sump, no blockage.

Crank is 4340 chinese, flywheel is 12,5 lb 4340, endplay is correct (checked today) amd this leak is my only problem. I use 10W30 engine oil, Schadek 26mm pump.

Any ideas what should I do? Today was very frustrating. I built my first engine, it hauls ass, but a flywheel seal got me? Huh..

My crankcase is new mag case and is vented on 3 places (oil tower, fuel pump location and 1-2 valve cover. I think I´ll pull the case again check the torque on the case nuts and luctite the galley plugs into the case.

Weird is that the leak started after 200 miles. No problems during break in and first miles on the street.

Any ideas?

Also, how do you set up valves with FK-8 camshaft? I used a factory procedure to adjust my valves, but was told it is wrong?

can u get the black German seals? i forgot what brand, but the red ones never worked for me....

Did you mount an o-ring in your flywheel? Could be the problem.

yes, o-ring is brand new...I sourced a black silicone seal from our local manufacturer this time, because single and dual lip german Elring did not worked for me..

That would be my guess. Good luck!

use a black german 1lip seal and maybe your flywheel isn't 100% correct in sealing. bad flywheel?

One time I had a problem were the flywheel surface (were the seal matches to) was bad. First I tried out with another seal cause I didn`t see the bad surface=same problem. Flywheel changed= problem solved.
Have a look at that detail...

Maybe a case plug is not sealing correct or a small crack in the case? Hopefully not a crack behind the 3rd cyl.
Good luck!

it seems OK, I had a nice uniform polished trace of the seal on the flywheel surface. Fingers crossed for the leaky galley plugs!

Is it possible that a pressure relief valve got stuck and that causes big oil pressure in main bearing near flywheel? That´s my last idea...

If you take the engine back out again, or if it's out I would check the runout of the flywheel.  If there is excessive runout of the flywheel this could cause the flywheel end of the crank to bump or rub the seal and finally damage the seal and cause a leak.  I trhink there is a tolerance and a procedure in the Bently manual to check the runout of the flywheel as well as the crank main bearing journals.  You will need a dial indicator and magnetic base dial indicator holder (basically something to hold the indicator).  I hope this isn't what's wrong but it's something to check.

Look @ your cam plug.

I had a big oil leak on my 2074 engine, though it was my main seal, but it was perfect. In fact my cam plug (repro for grooved case) was totally loose in the case.

I replaced the metal plug with a silicon plug for mexican case without groove (without splitting the case) and no leaks since  :)

http://panelvan.skynetblogs.be/post/7142147/back-in-bzh

So..today..rushed from my work to friends shop. car on the lift, engine removed, flywheel removed and..main seal dry as a desert. All galley plugs loctited, but the problem was the cam plug! Hopefully I had a spare "new style" rubber coated cam plug that I purchased by a mistake, so I removed the original metal cam plug and installed the rubber cam plug. No oil leaks after 50 miles.

My question is..my Daiken clutch disc got contaminated by oil. I did my best to degrease it, I used heavy duty killer industrial degreaser (tetrachlormethan). The clutch is slipping a little bit under heavy load. Can I hope that the remaining oil will "dry out" from the clutch disc after some time of light use? I only head a stock sprung disc in my parts stash and did not want to use it.. thanks,

Hi I have a Question in one of your Pictures it looks that starter is mounted upside down?? or is a Thing  Starter Different? never seen one with the motor on top and Solenoid on the Bottom???

Hi, this is not a 181 starter. 181 starter is the same as beetle auto-gearbox self supporting starter. But I´m using high torque european Magneton starter in my car. It is much stronger, lighter, also self supporting and is happily turning my engine.  Its shape dictates the position in the car, the flange is in other position than with Bosch starter..

here you can see the difference in size and weight between the two:

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SmTa5MLt02I/AAAAAAAACY8/eXGG5p53TfU/s800/DSC01217.JPG)

Where the hell do you get one of those and how much...... :o

It is a starter from Czech manufacturer Magneton (very old company specialised in auto industry). It is made locally here in Europe. If you want I can find the price, buy it for you and send it out! No China!

It is a sterter with reduction gear so If I undwerstand it draws less current from battery but with huge power.

Jan

Yes please dude, some other people might want one too :)

Thank you


PS Top notch work dude, killer trekker !!

It is pricey..retail cost is 144 USD+ shipping from Europe. Also there is a Chinese copy, knockoff of this for 83 but I do not recommend this.
In case of interest I can try to arrange ome group buy with manufacturer?

$144 is not to bad at all , can  you get the weight for me ? Sorry to be a pain :)

I found out that magneton has a dealership in the States too:

Maybe it would be easier to get the starter locally.

Part number is 443 115 141 310

Original application is passenger car Skoda Felicia with 1.6 engine.

Let me know if they are not able to help!

International Automotive Trading, Inc.

New York Office, 61-12 32nd Ave, 11377 Woodside, NY

tel: +1 7189564248fax: +1 7189564310

e-mail: www.iat-usa.com; ztavor@iat-usa.com

J&N Electric

1201 Glendale Milford Rd., Cincinnati, OH 45215

tel: +1 513-771-8000 ext.202fax: +1 513-771-6502

e-mail: www.jnelectric.com; tkuechly@jnelectric.com

MAGNETON North America

3171 Rolling Green Court, Milford, MI 48380

tel: +1 248-684-966;cell phone +1 248-207-1610fax: +1 248-446-1481

e-mail: www.magneton.eu; rpdeng@aol.com

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SmTa6iTs3CI/AAAAAAAACZA/jl_OK02GWIc/s800/DSC01218.JPG)(http://)

Ahhh I am in the the UK, so if any other brits wanted to give this a go let me know :)

Here is a Magneton dealer in the UK:

GLOBALPART COMPONENTS

Unit 7, Barford Ind.Estate, Watton Road, Barford, Norwich, NR 9 4BG

tel: +44 1603759773fax: +44 1603759773

e-mail: jrhinds@gctcltd.com

Let me know if you need help.

I've Heard that the "Idiot Book" says to pour kerosene on your clutch and light it on fire. For how long, I'm not sure?

That leak fix was an interesting read for me...My 1776 has a pesky little leak that I've assumed was perhaps a dried-out main seal since the engine was out of the car and sitting on a garage floor for awhile.  I'm thinking it may be something similar to what you had going on, now that I'm looking at it.

hey my Daiken disc is already in the car and slipping happily when I step on the gas. I´ll limp through tomorrows meeting and will order new disc from the States...

dreadful cam plug:

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S9Fk8YsSwrI/AAAAAAAAEN4/K28ZF0bXfEU/s800/22042010118.jpg)

so those stock groove type plugs are not worth having in the block?

is this the billet type,with the rubber around which you have now?

Installed the same as it: http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1370

I can not say the stock plug is worthless. Maybe it was the problem of the plug, or the engine case, but it had a lot of free play around and the sealer (hylomar) did not hold up. Maybe with some kind of hardening gasket it would be OK.

Plenty of them on Ebay Rob

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/S938-Skoda-Favorit-Felicia-1-3-1-6-94-Starter-Motor_W0QQitemZ390173135566QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5ad82192ce

beware, from the pic I would say this is a chinese copy! Very bad quality.

Just for pleasure I´m going to upgrade my CSP centerpush linkage with new floating ball joints.

It should 100% eliminate idle changes with warm engine. They are on the left on my pic.

Jan

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S_rdWLD8skI/AAAAAAAAET0/_I339m7QBLI/s576/24052010188.jpg)

This 181 may be for sale in following weeks :( As my heart is currently set on Porsche 912, I try to source as much funds as possible... also as I´m a project guy and the 181 is almost finished I´m on lookout for something another.. It´s just 8000 EUR in the engine itself..

sad to hear that

Hi Zvonimir, it is not sad as I´m moving to another beautiful aircooled car, and I´m moving forward. If thisthing doesn´t sell for reasonable money, I´ll keep it as it is a wonderful summer driver!

Jan

why not keep the 2.3, and put that in a 912. should go well :)

My engine synced with carbtune after installation of new JKM floating linkage ball joints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9JJz8sf7vo

I have to say I really enjoy the car with new engine. It runs really great, it cools well, I enjoy tuning the carbs and ignition occasionaly and I really give my attention to the state of tune.

My trekker is a serious warrior now but I have to hold back and I try to not race everything I meet on the streets.

Now I consider taking it apart during winter and stepping up to 86mm crank + 86C cam because the need for power is huge. I´m taking it to chassis dyno soon as I believe it is already broken in after first 2000 miles.

I really recommend my CSP linkage mod with floating balljoints. Nothing like to stop after a quick ride and the engine fells back to nice 900 rpm idle and stays there.

Hello Jan, where can I find those JKM floating linkage ball joints? I have had same problems with idle when engine runs warm.

Pantse

Hey I got them directly in Jan Kreyer´s store at : http://www.jkm-tuning.com/docs/start.htm

jan

Great, that helps! Thanks!

Pantse

 

I did a first nervous pass in my life this weekend:-)

Weather wasn´t good, I managed to do 9.4 sec at 1/8th mile wet track on 205/65 radials and with stock 4.37 gearbox. I´m sure I had a very bad traction. What can I do apart from training? What tyre pressure do you recommend?

Thanks,

Jan

@ 181

are you serious ?
You have totally stock gearbox and a 2276ccm engine, and gearbox is still holding up ?  :o

Yes, I´m going to make an upgrade as soon as it blows up..

From which Skoda , year and type , is the starter exactly ??
Thank you , Carsten

felicia mid to late nineties. got one too ;)

Thanks ! Good to know , maybe i find one on the wrecking yard or better :
Have a look on ebay germany , there are differnt people offiring them for around 80 € inkl. shipping to GB !
Put in : "Skoda felicia Anlasser "
Greets , Carsten

yup, german ebay will treat you well ;)

drivers view

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/S7jinYFAf4I/AAAAAAAAEI8/HLmfUfv3e9Y/s640/04042010055.jpg)

can you hear something off that radio while using the power you have? ;D ;D
I really love those seats, I want those too :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap_kSxwAvMc

my first 1/4 this weekend :-)

12 second run? that's quick  ;) ;D

first mod for this year..Pertronix 1844 along with NOS 010..we´ll see what it can do.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_nKjezkastzY/TdllUewRNhI/AAAAAAAAEn8/t9GKI1uVB7I/s640/DSC02556.JPG)

What happened to the doors? Didn't look like he was blowing them off in the video ???
 ;D

Is that a rev limiting rotor? I've never seen one for an 010. I'd be interested in one...

Wonder if you can just run a 009 rotor and cap combination?

Nope. Not on an 010

they blew off in previous race :-) Not really. All Things have the doors hooked on quick release hinges and I remove them to save some weight.

And yes this is a rev limiting rotor from late aluminium (009)distributor. CSP has them in few different versions. To make them work on 010, you have to make an adaptor bushing to fit it on a distributor shaft - which is somewhat thinner than on late distributors. I´m using the 6500 rpm version and I ocasionally meet the limiter on 2nd gear:-)

(http://gallery.tuningy.com/albums/2011/2011-04-23-10-jarni-sprint-vitkov/10-jarni-sprint-vitkov-moody-0241.jpg)

from this years first VW event. Me on the passenger seat enjoying my own car.

That's what I figured & good to know! ... never tried it but a good alternative to the original pieces which are harder and harder to find.

here you go...

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sej72dXTSZI/AAAAAAAABaI/QBySsSSWSlI/s720/DSC00697.JPG)

needs to be really thin+ there is a slot cut into the bushing to accomodate for the rotor locating "teeth". Running second season without hassles.

                                                                      ^^^ I stand corrected ^^^
I should have said... "Normally, the cap / rotor from an 009 will not directly fit an 010, however this is the Lounge and anything is possible"


Cheers ;D
 

LOL!
I like those rotors, cheap insurance!

BTW I´ve seen a 009 cap modified to 010 - there was a small piece filed out where the breaker contact bolt goes through the distributor body and it worked!

Pertronix´ed 010 installed yesterday now purrs like a kitten. I did not have the balls to set up to 30°BTDC as it was 10PM due to angry neighbors :-D

Fuel continues don't hang there to long ;) unburnt fuel washes the cilinderwalls clean bad thing ;)

Not to hijack this cool thread on an even cooler car, but I have to ask: How in the world can you time an 010 distributor with an 009 style cap? The distributor cap clips are in different locations thus allowing the plug wires to be in the wrong position in relation to the points & rotor.
Am I missing something here ???
Thanks in advance

in Eastern block everything was possible. I do not remember the details, but it was  stock 009ish looking orange cap, with round recess filed by hand in in the same place as true 010 cap. This distributor isnť in my posession.

Thanks for the reply 181..

I really like your car.. Good job!

Now I´m looking for few more ponnies. I consider switching from FK8 to 86C and bumping compression from 10:00 to 11:00. Also thinking about experimenting with 42 mm venturies on my 48 DRLAS (now I have 40s) what effect will it have with my 42x37 Steve Tims Stage II heads?

Jan

How about a set of IDA's? What size is your exhaust? Seems like a lot of work for a small change in the cam.

exhaust is a 1 5/8 sidewinder. I´ m limited by the shape of the back of the car - regular mufflers hang out a lot! Do you think that IDAs would be a huge progress over 48 DRLAs? I believe I can step up to 42 nn venturis max. I think that 42mm intake valves will be the limiting factor then..I love the driveability of the engine as it is but I´m short of power on some occasions. The car is very heavy, I think around 1900 lbs with me on board.

I think you're just getting used to the power ;)

A 1 3/4" will give you more mid range and top end, but will sacrifice a little down low... if you up the cam a 1 3/4" would definitely compliment it.

As for the DRLA's vs Webers....

I don't think moving to 42 vents will do much more than hurt the torque curve you have now.
It will only run well up high, low end will suck as will transistion ... not to mention trying to jet it to be smooth.
Just my opinion.

Well, order done:

Total seal rings  will go in place of stock Mahle rings
CB lightweight wrist pins with tru-arc locks will go in place of stock wrist pins and teflon buttons
Web 86C with a new set of 28mm CB lightweight lifters will go in place of FK-8 with the same brand lifters
compression will be upped to 11:1 (running on 100RON octane gas)

When the engine is out I´ll check for clearances and internals will be rebalanced just in case
will do HVX oiling mods like Bob Hoover recommends

we´ll see what it will do..

cool stuff. how come you're upgrading to total seal rings? did you have issue with the stock rings?

no issues, but I think with higher compression better sealing will not hurt. No blowby as the engine is fresh.  I made 2800 km round trip to EBI4 and back without any engine problems (my brake lighs died)

I consider stepping up to blueprinted 30 mm Schadek from my blueprinted 26 mm Schadek as HVX mods are very oil-consuming. Also considering corvair pushrod mod to promote valvetrain oiling and cooling.

I also polished my stock axles today, what do you thing, is that enough:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tolQspX6aOI/TibzXJBrWGI/AAAAAAAAEsU/KQFbO_tLZRU/s640/DSC02701.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e-AWNs2XPZo/TibzZMOYaxI/AAAAAAAAEsg/F7Khf20q_nk/s640/DSC02702.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ep9NVJnykiM/TibzZD_X7wI/AAAAAAAAEsk/B83mfPM_iFM/s640/DSC02704.JPG)

Your car looks awesome and the engine build was fun to read.

Thanks for putting it out there.

 ;D

thanks for compliments:-)

Kitchen build engine will be soon coupled to kitchen build transmission:

(http://oi56.tinypic.com/2629ngk.jpg)

You will love the sweet smell of tranny oil in the house. (I do)  ;D

on my way to EBI i suffered an oil leak from 912 style oil filler/tower. I blame myself for not tightening the nut enough. As I hate the stock style bolt with its need for special tool to tighten it, I got myself this new bolt made as a special order:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EMyuQeRJEp0/TjBxMiBfpAI/AAAAAAAAEtk/dz1rqiMXcUQ/s640/DSC02706.JPG)

Now I can tighten it down with a 22mm wrench.

Nice!

181- Could you tell me more about the "corvair pushrod mod"? Thanks in advance. Al

PS- Found your thread (and pic) in the Racing forum; great stuff!!

New transmission, CSP torque bars. I rehashed the transmission mounting system from CB Rhino mounts on stock cradle to stock Type 2 mounts on HD cradle to get noise to reasonable level. Mohr mount with rubber pads instead of urethane. Shift rod bushing changed for new one, shift rod coupler cleaned, inspected for wear (virtually none) and lubed (I´m using stock VW cage with urethane pads) Berg shifter dismantled, cleaned and lubed. We´ll see what it will do :-)


(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ColrxnE1xNI/TjujkE0iEaI/AAAAAAAAEuk/jaBdfmkMbuQ/s720/DSC02729.JPG)

new master cylinder along with Roll Control. Yay!  ;D

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qYen5FIyUNk/TjumNAafm7I/AAAAAAAAEvE/5nJoPWwpYQE/s720/DSC02716.JPG)

NOS beam stiffeners I got at EBI4!

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RM6ZgQ_etgk/TjumPQ0947I/AAAAAAAAEvI/vin-_6tIpWE/s720/DSC02736.JPG)

dosnt really matter, but just for discussion sake
are those NOS or are they the new ones by CSP? reason i am asking is all Type 181 imported into or built in Indonesia has these stiffeners instead

(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb452/pupjoint2/balikpapan%20vw/CIMG1461.jpg)
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb469/pupjoint3/vws%20jakarta%20general/CIMG1932.jpg)

the ones you have fitted are usualy fitted to Type 1 cars from the factory

I got the bolt-on stiffeners at the swap meet at EBI4 from a guy, who stated he got them with a bulk of parts from South Africa many years ago. I got them with a factory blue box, part number 111 498 001A. He stated that south african VW factory equipped all bugs produced there with these stiffeners. CSP is now making very nice reproduction of these stiffeners.

The indonesian double style weld on stiffeners are exactly the same I had on a VW 181 from the factory, but I sold the whole beam with stiffeners to a guy building baja bug.

cool!!!  ;D

I like those bolt on stiffeners. I want a pair for my car.

new stance..rear torsion bars reindexed up. You can see the repaint of the part of the body due to accident of previous owner (army). I had to cut, weld, paint..I consider to repaint the rest of the car next year.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kE6isiaEOfQ/TkRLLSOfmyI/AAAAAAAAEz4/dD6dFN8tHQ0/s640/DSC02756.JPG)

Nice Bosch switch I found on old electrical device now serves for priming the 48DRLAs, Line lock control light is near the radioplayer
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2uqCH0ktoEQ/TkRLEuzsv7I/AAAAAAAAEzM/85LACVsEr-M/s640/DSC02744.JPG)

EBI 2014 here I come!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vfbesvEujEs/TkRLFf57ilI/AAAAAAAAEzU/ERvYe8HGLes/s640/DSC02747.JPG)

nice touch: RAL 6014 gelbolive paint on old Berg shigter
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uoAcGC7z5aQ/TkRLFxIR6NI/AAAAAAAAEzY/bnPc0T2ape4/s640/DSC02743.JPG)

Parts I use
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7e_yuW515Sg/TkRLGOP21vI/AAAAAAAAEzc/PhhNfLcTd90/s640/DSC02751.JPG)

I know..oil drip. next Schadek will be o-ringed
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dJ0knkH7OqE/TkRLL3oqQAI/AAAAAAAAEz8/EfBvYg5DxFo/s640/DSC02755.JPG)

my weapon of choice
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4AwAZuF0BAo/TkRLMFepSPI/AAAAAAAAE0A/Og7KijqWu9g/s640/DSC02753.JPG)

Coooool!

guess who´s got a broken clutch tube tab in achassis tunnel >:( :'(

Wow, I´m so fuc*** excited...it seems that I´ll bring my Thing a bigger brother...genuine and rare 1973 Type 147 Fridolin..

nice 147 cal looker

here is the strange beast that will accompany my type 181 VERY SOON!

[attachment=1]

Nice find!  :)

And it's a corner window model! Too cool 8)

Cool! Can't wait to see that in the cal-look way.

Well I dumped so much money into the buy, that it will stay in truly original condition  :) I´m soo excited. I will travel 750 miles through Germany after I pick it up from the original owner!

Come on it already has Porsche pattern for cool wheels  :P ;D

I let the former owner to return the car to original condition before receiving payment, so now it is sporting stock 4x130 steelies and it´s on original height...adjustable beam stayed on the car, though... ;)

Sweet fact is that Type 147 shares the same chassis with Ghia and Type 181 so I can swap all the performance parts from my Thing into Fridolin if I go crazy:-)

Then I say : go crazy!  ;)

so, after 1100 km of crusing through Fatherland in freezy weather with no heat, I brought home this beauty:

[attachment=1]

the dash cleaned up nicely from flat black paint which some of previous owners painted on..

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kDMov-3hLls/TslUcKM2i9I/AAAAAAAAE3E/t1ZMnZ6M9L8/s640/DSC02802.JPG)

Very cool!!

thanks Zach  ;)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HIzq4N8xG4k/TslUN_QlHNI/AAAAAAAAE2o/y55eCOfHCqw/s720/DSC02794.JPG)

looking for a cheap camber compensator now :-) that Fridolin is very unstable against what I´m used to from my Type 181. The increased weight of 200 extra kilograms against beetle, high point of gravity and battery in the engine compartment doesn´t help either :-)

let´s go back to my kitchen built 2276 for now.

I plan to upgrade my current engine to gain some extra performance out of it..

my combo is:
2276, 82x94, forged crank with H-beams and VW journals, lightened flywheel, berg heavy pulley, Steve Tims 42x37 stage 2 heads with CB big beef manifolds, 48 DRLAS with 40 vents, FK 8 cam, 1.4:1 CB rockers, AC.NET HD ALU pushrods, CB lightweight lifters.. Ignited by 010 with Pertronix and blue coil. 9.5:1 comp. Exhaust is 1 5/8 sidewinder.

I´m very happy with this engine so far, cooling is very well with Type 1 doghouse system and extra alu oil cooler. Engine is really smooth, able of daily use and I have a limiter set at 6500 for a piece of mind.

Now I consider to keep my crank assembly, switch the cam for Web 86C with Udo´s lifters, bump compression close to 11.1, switch heads for Steve Tims Stage 2 Plus welded heads (44x37) and use 42 vents in my DRLAs along with some rejetting. 1 3/4 CSP Python header will go in place of 1 5/8 Sidewinder.  Otherwise I´ll keep all other components from my current combo and ditch the limiter for sure :-)

Is it worth it, what will I gain with these changes? I want to keep my engine naturally aspirated..

Feel free to contribute with your opinions and/or recommandations of what would you do with this engine.

Thanks,

Jan

anybody?:-)

Definitely worth it. It's a good combo now, but you're taking it to the next level for sure. Should make 200+.

What is the diameter of your aluminum push rods (and the wall thickness)? Are you running dual springs? If so, what is the pressure on the seat and also on the nose of the cam at full lift?

Rick Mortensen

pushrods are 3/8" 2024 T-3 heat treated .095 wall thicness. I´ll have t check for pressure numbers, engine is in the stage of planning..

New Borla stacks fitted to my 48DRLAs- some tweaking on the mounting holes needed, some porting of the carb cover needed to achieve smooth transition between stacks and carb.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jP5XI1se7Fw/T_3Nji0oZZI/AAAAAAAAFU0/gKaWVpqVzAk/s800/DSC03464.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2nYtSQCF6Sk/T_3NmEwkbNI/AAAAAAAAFVM/sRBpwn9h_mA/s800/DSC03467.JPG)

Steve Tims Stage2+with 44x37 valves

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KcLKqIDwedU/UBWf1oJ0IoI/AAAAAAAAFYY/Xqi7VMgLLSc/s512/DSC03514.JPG)

My Thing as a cool delivery wagen on my friend´s wedding day.

2276, 11:1, 86C cam in the back and cool bride on passenger seat can you ask for more?:-)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/527125_355078694568064_796405776_n.jpg)

Did you ran away with the bride? ;D Would have been hard to catch you!

(http://i46.tinypic.com/35mflvc.jpg)

I want to ask experienced, does this wear pattern on my lifters look normal?

I had CB lifters with my FK8 cam and dual springs for approximately 5000 miles. I switched the cam for 86c with a new set of lifters but I really don´t know if it is OK to offer these for sale with the cam. That´s why I ask.

Thank you.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CG6SDhFk4ZI/UQglq_BnGDI/AAAAAAAAFaw/ARkhv_NRwhA/s800/DSC03590.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6e_p4gHl5Nw/UQglrGxg_NI/AAAAAAAAFa0/dyR8FIp_Lis/s800/DSC03591.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-fVxpZ5NHxxY/UQglrTt7sbI/AAAAAAAAFa4/QI_b-pKpbR0/s800/DSC03592.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-d_PQWTRAPWQ/UQglsdonZUI/AAAAAAAAFbI/hjU2lJbT4sI/s800/DSC03594.JPG)

woke her up from winter sleep yesterday...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyACsLYzN6M

synced today and firs short drive in 2013 season


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSOtXRSZJpE

Hi guys,

we put my car on chassis dyno today and this is the result with belt, muffler and everything:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/969516_565036876853144_589454236_n.jpg)

max power is 164.5PS at 6200rpm
max torque is 234Nm at 4000rpm

at 6200rpm my rev limiter kicked in

quick specs:

82x94 2276cc
Steve Tims Stage 2 Plus welded heads 44x37 valves
CB 1.4 rockers with Web 86C
1 3/4 Python exhaust
CR set at 11:1 with 1.2mm deck
48 DRLAs with 40 vents/200 airs/170 mains/65 idles/3.0 needle valves and Borla stacks without air cleaners
Ignition provided by 010 Bosch with pertronix module, blue coil and NGK D6EA plugs, bosch wires. Currently set with stroboscope at 28°BTDC


What does it tell you? Seems OK or some major troubles?  Thanks!

Rev it higher ;)

At the crank or wheels?

I have the same heads but 42mm inlet valves and cam. Here is my dyno

http://keversite.nl/motoren/motor.php?id=68

If that's at the wheels it's actually very good for 6200rpm and an indication of a healthy engine, with that head, cam, c/r combo you can expect peak HP around 7200-7500. What lifters did I you end up using on the 86c and most importantly how does the car drive.......seat of the pants compared to the old combo, I bet it comes on hard after 4500.

Good work anyway mate, enjoy your thing.........

Good numbers. If you want more: try bigger venturies, play with ignition timing, make sure the jetting is spot on. Might be that one day of dyno time can give you 10-20 more. And move the rpm limiter to 7500!!!

I agree with a bit more advance, I ran and raced with quite an similar engine with 86c and MSD, max advance was 32deg without problems. CR was 10.4:1. Also similar hp/torque curve with the cam kicking in 3500rpm.

I also agree with more rpm's, my engine was revved up to 6500 but with smaller carbs (45 dells with 37 venturis) without the hp curve yet going down. Also if you've got enough dyno time, try if a stinger (...on a python exhaust?) or a different muffler would straighen that drop on 5000-5500. Maybe some kind of resonance / acoustic thing going on.

Thanks guys. I ended up using a new set of CB lightweight lifters with loctited internal snap rings along with 86C. The car lost its bottom a bit and the power moved up so it´s less pleasant to drive in stop and go traffic but it hauls ass when needed.

My concern is the shape of the curves. Is this normal to have such falls between 3400-5000? If I understand correctly, 86C wake up at 3200. According to my LM2 I´m a bit lean at the top, so can this be the reason for the situation after 5000rpm?

Be patient with me this was my first dyno time ever.

Thanks again .-)

I have to say that your curve is interesting. The dip you see in the transition area is often seen on NA engines but your engine picks up only to dip again 3 times. Between: 3600 - 3800 and again at 4000 - 4200 rpms but you also have a big dip at where it should peak: 5100 - 5600 rpms. Have you checked your igniton and made sure your engine get enough fuel?

-BB-

Good ideas!

I run a CB rotary pump, through stock fuel line, no regulator, stock DRLA banjos with stock internal screens, and 3.0 needle valves. Specs of the pump are 3 1/2 lbs. of uninterrupted fuel pressure at up to 30 gallons per hour. I suppose I´ll remove the screens and drill the banjos to make sure they flow.

I´m looking at this regulator with gauge: http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandise/products_details.asp?PartNo=FK85/G&CategoryID=8&PartsectionID=18, it would be useful to see if there are any pressure drops during the dyno run.

For ignition I have a 010 with pertronix and simple rev-limiting rotor. For next dyno run I can switch to other, bone stock and low mileage 010 distributor.

Can these drops be caused by some cross firing or interference on spark plug wires or valve float? I have CB 650 springs kit, thinwall mantons and CB lightweight lifters.

Thanks,

Jan

Your AF will tell you if your engine have enough fuel. If enough fuel, then I would focus on the ignition. Sort the dip at peak and increase the RPMS a bit. I do not think your engine should should dyno a lot more because 165 HP at the wheels is a good result, 180 - 190 HP at the flywheel.

-BB-

Is the reading from the flywheel or at the wheels, i have a very similar spec combo, 82x94, 44x37 wedgeports,ida's 86c jpm springs  10.2-1 comp. I dyno'd it belt on through the muffler 37mm vents with unported manifolds (just matched on the ends) it made 160 flywheel at just 5500 on dynamics roller.
I have since welded and ported the manifolds right up and installed 42mm vents, downlow and midrange has obviously suffered but the top end 4k onwards has come alive bigtime, im yet to get back to the rollers. my graph on f7's 160 main 200 airs had the usual ida dip around 3-3.5kk (rich afr's) but at the top end was good. Yours is making 170+ ft torque, thats stout.

these numbers should be flywheel HP. The car was on the rollers but they recalculate it back to flywheel HP using some coeficients I think..

I ordered fuel pressure gauge and I´ll play with my LM2 wideband to find out more about posiible reasons.

1-- Set the timing for 32*

2-- Fuel Pressure to carbs -- get rid of every possible restriction, (screens, narrow lines, sharp bends in the line) and check the screen in the tank -- -- if you are going to get a regulator (another restriction) get a new fuel pump that is, at least, getting 25-40 psi to the regulator and then have a short fuel line run to the carbs

Hello
1. I have never had an engine with a set of those heads on the dyno. But assuming we are in the range of a Wedge port, the engine should peak somewhere in the 6300 - 6500 range. So set the limiter to minimum 6800 real life.
2. That header kills upper end performance a little bit. And is also a tad large for the combo. But it looks and fits nice.
3. The peak power should (ought to be) be about 185 hp with belt and muffler. Your peak torque is also low. ( I have built 2275´s with stage 2 heads and the 86C that pulls an easy 170 hp and 260 Nm. Awesome daily driver combo by the way)
4. Those stacks in that combo kills performance, as the intake length gets way too long. You should be about 14 - max 15" from valve to mouth.
5. What Fiat dude said, generally. You do not need quite as much to feed 200 hp. But better safe than sorry.
6. As for the zig zag power curve, that can be anything from tire slip to too large port volume to premature detonation. But I´d say that something annoys the combo. Hard to say exactly what without getting my fingers dirty.

T

PS. There is a good chance that there are another 5-10 hp in it when you get the rev limiter up to about 7000 rpm. If that happens youre not too far off.

My 2332 cc, 86C, 1.4 Scat rockers, 44 x 37 044 Ultra Mag Plus K-Roc porting, 1.75" Bugpack header, IDA's with 42 mm vents, stock fuel pump & fuel lines, and IIRC around 10.6:1 CR made180 HP to the wheels with the best reading at 34 degrees advance at 6200 rpm. Good for 12.8's in 1/4-mile at 104 MPH in a 2,025 lb (with driver) stock Beetle. Used large jets of 180 main and 210 air.

Holy Moley, a long time passed since I updated this thread! No actual news,. Car is sitting in a dry dark room and is awaiting its resurrection. I drove it 4 years ago for the last time :-o Decided to pull a trigger on a nice close ratio transmission, and with a lot of new performance products on the market I think an engine upgrade wil follow  ;D

So yesterday I put some air into tires, some fresh gas, new battery, and she woke up after 4 years of rest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49q2SCqwCSY

Now brake check is on order, and waiting for my Berg 5!

Sounds much better than the previous video.
Much less 'tappety'. Different camera or have you done engine/cam work?

Hi, can't see the dyno graph anymore so can't comment on that but regarding fuel delivery;
I have a 2275cc with 44-37 heads, turbo thomas exhaust, 45 dellorto 38 venturi, JPM cam (similar to 86c) dual tapered pushrods, oteva springs and 1,4 rockers. 
Oem fuel pump and pipes, no problem with fuel delivery and dynoed to 194 hp at 6100 rpm and 265 nm with a A/F of 9 over 5000 rpm.

165 hp at 6300 rpm on the flywheel is way too low, have you checked your spark plugs? I dynoed the same number with my old version of the engine with 42-37 valves and fk8 and later found out it had a crack in the intake and double the spark gap (burned down plug) on one cylinder...

Hi ,
Waht is the part number from your jpm cam ?

can this be used on a 1600 bellhouse 091 gearbox.