Oil Cooler and Torque Bar errrrr it dont fit!!!! help

[spennyp]

folks.....trying to mount my 72 plate oil cooler with fan in a position thats not going to affect/interfere with the csp torque bar that i'm installing....i want to make sure its got plenty of air around it....but i just cant see a way of mounting the cooler without stopping me instaling my torque bar.....is there a smaller cooler with fan on the market?? (i have the massive bugpack branded one)...... i did think about going down the route of using a mocal cooler without fan and ducting fresh right to it!! but i dont know/not sure how this will compare.....a 115mm x 19 or 25 row cooler would fit a treat.....any help would be greatly appreciated as at the moment i'm stuck

[GreenTom]

hi,

I tihink takt there arent any smaller oil coolers without electric fan.
maybe ou could try to put a cooler on the front beam (without fan) and maybe two under the car atached to the flore.
is youre car a street car or race car?

[Jon]

I got that huge oil cooler mounted on my friends car, that car also has a CSP torque bar. It now sits in front of the drive-axle on the driver-side, with plenty of air. Took me an entire day of welding and thinking, didn't want to drill or weld the car. I will try to take some pics of it.

[Lids]

Try these: http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ECO0039&cartid=



only $250, but the best.

Cooler and fan dimensions are 8 1/4' long, 6" wide, and 6" tall. The actual cooler is only 7" wide, it's 8 1/4" from the edge of mounting flange to edge of mounting flange.

[Tobi/DFL]

Hi,
I had the same problem as you (I have a 96 plate cooler with fan) and spend hours to find a good working solution. In the end I fabricated some extensoins made of old (crap!) Bugpack HD aluminium pushrods.
Hope this helps...
Bye,

Tobi

[Tobi/DFL]

More...

[Tobi/DFL]

Even more...

[Peter Roberts]

I use the same method , but use T4 pushrods , as they are the right size to tap for M6 thread .

Except I still use the rubber blocks for insulating the vibration from the cooler as much as possible .

[Zach Gomulka]

Try these: http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ECO0039&cartid=



only $250, but the best.

Cooler and fan dimensions are 8 1/4' long, 6" wide, and 6" tall. The actual cooler is only 7" wide, it's 8 1/4" from the edge of mounting flange to edge of mounting flange.

I have used both of those coolers, and they work great! First I used the single fan pack, then I upgraded to the dual fan pack on my 1776 type 3 engine. I had them mounted on the drivers side, fans on top pulling air up, parrallel to the ground, in the corner where the torsion housing meets the frame horn. It was a tight fit, but it worked. I also used 2 thermostats- one was at the oil filter preventing oil to the cooler until it reached 180 degrees, the other was after the oil cooler. It switched on the fans if the oil coming out of the cooler was 180+.

[spennyp]

thanks folks thats great help thats a tight fit for sure tobi did you mount the csp bar before the cooler??? nice clean under carriage btw .....right i'm off out to the garage to have a play and see what fits

[Tobi/DFL]

Thanks Spennyp! Yes, I fitted the torque bars first and it was the only way to mount the cooler as it´s really huge. Those rubber mounts used by Peter are a good idea as well although I haven´t had any problems with the vibrations so far though my gearbox is solid mounted as well. Maybe I will try those rubber blocks anyway...

[Peter Roberts]

I don't use the torque bar system , as I have found that you still get wheel-hop , on 2 individual cars ( 1 Ghia , 1 Beetle ) .

I also don't like the way it clutters up the underside of the gearbox area , making it hard to mount oil coolers , as you have found out .

I am also trying to go away from solid mounts as our club guys drive their cars a lot , and the solid mount damage is taking it's toll , I am trying our CDS tube fabricated system , that ties the gearbox mount yoke to the inner wings , using CB Rhino mounts for the street , with a swappable solid yoke for drag racing .

On Mark's 55 , pictured below , I am going to tie it into the RLR roll cage .

[Eddie DVK]

Hey peter,
like the set up, did you also think of mountig the bar to the rear shock mount..?

Kind Regards Edgar

[Peter Roberts]

No , this setup is so solid , it isn't necessary .

I'm glad you like the work .

[spennyp]

thats very neat Pete....you shoud go into production fella....got the cooler mounted just like tobi in the end but thanks for the input....i might go down a different route next time.....but after the pain this car has caused that will probably be a long long way away.....unless of course the sound of IDA's is as great as everyone makes out 

[spennyp]

another quick cooler question.......do you guys just run an on/off switch for the fan???

[Zach Gomulka]

another quick cooler question.......do you guys just run an on/off switch for the fan???

Set it up to a thermostat. That way if the oil leaving the cooler is over 180-190, then the fan(s) automatically switch on.

[Peter Roberts]

I personally prefer it on a switch , the thermostats that come with the mesa cooler , is a very fragile piece .

I use a switch with a red LED in the end , that way you know if power is going to the fan , I have had a fuse blow on one before , and the LED going out gave away the problem , before it became one .

Plus you can leave the fan on when you pull up and turn the motor off ,and it sounds cool 

[Tobi/DFL]

Hi Spennyp, I use a standard in-line thermostat in between the oil filter and the cooler and a simple switch for the cooler fan as i think it doesn´t have to have another thermostat (I have a oil temp. gauge in my dashboard)...
I have another question: do you still have 4 O-rings for original EMPI 5-spokes left?

[spennyp]

Thanks folks......running an inline thermostat and i'll sort a simple on/off swith for the fan....and yes i have some 5 spoke 'o' rings

[H67bug]

Hi Spenny. Sounds like you have your hands full. I have run a kmocal pancake thermostat which the oil filter mounts into and a switch.

The switch is partilally hidden in the front plate which would normally go under the seat and it is just tucked in behind the roll cage.  This way it is close to the fan and the battery so no messing about re running wires and you can stil do as Pete said and run the fan when the car is stopped if you want to.

To be fair in this weather we none of us need fans! lol!

 

[folkevogn]

No , this setup is so solid , it isn't necessary .

I'm glad you like the work .


How is the clearence between the tube and the exhaust pipe? Looking at your car, I`m guessing you have taken it into acount. But I`m wondering because when i mounted my CSP torque bar I had some problems with the clearence(1 3/4 inch exhaust). Had to modify a little bit.

I really like your way of solving the problem,because if you look at a car, and the length is the x-direction,the hight is the y-direction and the width is the z-direction, you have a x-y-z plane.In my opinion the motion you need to stop is the "forks" forces in the y-direction(and a little bit in the z-direction). And when you look at the CSP bar it got forces working in all tree direction,and with that angle on the bar it will have to have at lot of forces working in the z- and x-direction to get a force in the y-direction big enuff to do any good. With your solution the tube is stopping all the motion in the right directions.

So my next question is, did you really have to make the tube in that size(diameter). When you look at the size of the CSP bar(witch have to be strong enuff to handle all the forces in the "wrong" directions aswell), i think it would be more than strong enuff to do the job if it was placed as your tube. If its for the look I totally understand  but I actually dont understand why there isn`t more people doing it(including myself,hehe).Porsche 356 had it in the early fifthies! Its mutch cheeper and easier to mount than the CSP bar aswell. Well.....this is only my opinion  hope not to mutch "off topic" here

[Peter Roberts]

I have tried the torque bar sytem , it would be excellent but for one problem , it mounts to the shock towers , which are tall and can move around a fair bit , if the torque bar was bolted to the body or something more substanial , it would work perfectly .

It also makes it a little cramped under the car , and harder to mount oil coolers etc .

Mike Sylvester is one of the people I know that use the torque bar setup , and it did still wheelhop , but he fitted a traction bar as well , and it was fine , to be fair .

The problem I had with wheel hop , was with a Ghia , and you can't really use a traction bar , as the rear overhang is more than on a Bug , and it can cause problems flexing the rear wings under load .

The system I use , is one that Paul at VW Speedshop came up with . Origionally the CDS uprights bolted to a bit of angle bolted through the boot floor . This worked fine , but did tend to damage and squash the boot floor a bit , and it would have been a shame to damage the luggage area , on the cars just being done , with immaculate painted boot floors  .

So we came up with the system we use now , it can be joined onto a cage if necessary ( as it is on paul's 9 sec Bug )

The bars could probably be smaller , but there are no clearance problems with the exhaust or anything , and I tend to over engineer everything .

The only recent change is trying to go away from solid mounts , as it is damaging the cars , with the regular street milage they get .

[ESH]

Intermediate mounts, CSP bar, Mocal cooler by gearbox, major wheel hop issues!
























AT THE FRONT!!!!!! 

[Martin Greaves]

I got stock vw gearbox mounts with a traction bar on my 67 and had no wheel hop so far. It has ran a best of 13.9 at bitburg last year will be a bit faster this year so we will have to wait and see if we get wheel hop then.

[Rune]

I use all Berg HD mounts, an Berg intermidiate mount and a Berg traction bar on my car. Never had wheel hop.. Maybe I just don't make enough power, lol.

[Peter Roberts]

Intermediate mounts, CSP bar, Mocal cooler by gearbox, major wheel hop issues!



























AT THE FRONT!!!!!! 

No but plenty of broken gearboxes , including one snapped in half I remember seeing a picture of in the mags 

And don't tell me it's down to horsepower , Paul Hamilton has NEVER broken a gearbox in his 9 second Bug ( plenty of horsepower there ) , and he uses the same method as I do , so we must be doing something right 

I believe the bus gearbox Richie has in there now has had breakages too .

So if you don't mind I'll stick to doing it my way thanks 

[Peter Roberts]

And , to be very clear on this , i'm not taking the piss , or being arsey , just stating what I believe , so ...

I'm not taking anything away from what is a very very fast car , in my opinion , I beliieve that if it spent less time going up in the air , it would have run a 9 a long time ago , it clearly has the power to 

Which would be great as Ritchie has spent a trememdous amount of dedicated time and effort developing the car , which I take my hat off to !!

I am just stating that I believe that movement causes breakages , and I try and eliminate as much movement as possible .

[Fastbrit]

The system Pete has come up with is in fact virtually identical to what I designed and fabricated (but welded in place) in Flashback in about 1997 or whenever it was. Seems such an obvious answer to me although I can understand that some people won't want to cut holes (or weld) the panel behind the seat. However, form does follow function…

[Peter Roberts]

I didn't come up with the system I use , Paul Hamilton did . I have just modified it to make it look more hardcore , and less belt and braces .

Using a similar system Keith , did you suffer many breakages when you were racing ?  If my memory serves me right , I think you told me you hadn't ?

I don't mind cutting or welding the boot floor area , but Alex has done such a lovely job on restoring the cars , that I'm trying to damage the paintwork the least .