lil lizzy

[dannyboy]

hi richie
the car has the same setup as it had when chris ran it
gaz coilovers and stock torsion bars it was ok until i wound them up a fair bit i will move them back to where thy were last year and try again
when you are over mr sanchezes manor pop in and have a look

[richie]

Ok,

not a fan of 2 springs on the same corner[torsion bar and coilover] but thats just my opinion,it obviously worked for Chris and for you   Why did you pre load it more,what are you trying to change? thought it always 60footed well before?

Will pm you when we are next coming over that way

cheers Richie

[dannyboy]

i mashed up the drive shafts/fulcrum plates and spider gears by having the arse to soft
but in hindsight i must have done that damage a while back as i had wound them up a bit near the end of last season when it was working well 
never mind its all a big learning curve for me and im having a ball with it  chuffed with a pb n/a while backing off a bit though must be more left in it than i thought
 

[dannyboy]

another vid


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/rjJruiQjROE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/rjJruiQjROE</a>

[richie]

That actually looks better,pressume you turned the bottle on then? it looks like more power keeps the back end planted more

cheers Richie

[dannyboy]

yes i had a 25 shot in it and had backed the coilovers off a bit it was still bouncing all the way but not as bad made for an interesting run 

[richie]

With them wound up you proberly have more spring than the shocks can handle

cheers Richie

[dannyboy]

cheers for all the feedback mate i have a lot to learn 

[peach_]

chuffed with a pb n/a
 

Nos isnt N/A 

[Andy Sykes]

chuffed with a pb n/a
 

Nos isnt N/A 

there was no NOS used on the 12.2

[peach_]

chuffed with a pb n/a
 

Nos isnt N/A 

there was no NOS used on the 12.2

Nor was there any NOS used on Rich moss's 12.1 in "Little Stink Hound" 

[dannyboy]

chuffed with a pb n/a
 

Nos isnt N/A 

there was no NOS used on the 12.2

Nor was there any NOS used on Rich moss's 12.1 in "Little Stink Hound" 



there was a fanbelt on lil lizzy

[peach_]

chuffed with a pb n/a
 

Nos isnt N/A 

there was no NOS used on the 12.2

Nor was there any NOS used on Rich moss's 12.1 in "Little Stink Hound" 



there was a fanbelt on lil lizzy

Bugger! you got me there 

Still not N/A thou 

[dannyboy]

peach.
i ran a 12.2 n/a with fanbelt on WITHOUT NITROUS
that is n/a
i also backed off 3/4 track 
now get back in your garage and get your car going 

[peach_]

peach.
i ran a 12.2 n/a with fanbelt on WITHOUT NITROUS
that is n/a
i also backed off 3/4 track 
now get back in your garage and get your car going 

  ok.............Car looks ace btw

[thejohn66]

chuffed with a pb n/a
 

Nos isnt N/A  

there was no NOS used on the 12.2

Nor was there any NOS used on Rich moss's 12.1 in "Little Stink Hound"  



there was a fanbelt on lil lizzy

Bugger! you got me there  

Still not N/A thou  

But did you drive it to the track and back home again (Ditto, car looks great Danny)

[dannyboy]

last time i saw your car it was on a trailor on its way home from the pod 

[thejohn66]

last time i saw your car it was on a trailor on its way home from the pod 

still drove it there

[dannyboy]

went on the rolling road yesterday after smoothing the map out it only made 157-159 fwhp  and that was a lot more than it made at the begining of the session
it still ran 12.2 last time it was out funny how so few ponies can make the car roll along at a fair old pace 

[leec]

That figure seems very low for a 2276 that runs low 12's?

Lee

[dannyboy]

tell me about it  got it weighed today at 690 kgs  dunno whats going on but im not complaining 

[Neil Davies]

that's about right for RWHP, but yes, FWHP seems a bit low.

[leec]

I'm sure someone on here had a calculation forum that would convert power and weight figures to et/mph?

Be interested to see if your figures match up?

Lee

[Shane Noone]

tell me about it  got it weighed today at 690 kgs  dunno whats going on but im not complaining 

Hi Danny, so yes, it is lighter but not super light - can't remember off hand kerb weight of standard bug of that year but have a feeling it's around 750 kgs ? - anyone correct me if that's way off please.

I'm sure someone on here had a calculation forum that would convert power and weight figures to et/mph?

Be interested to see if your figures match up?

Lee

Hi Lee, yes I agree with both you and Neil and Danny and I were pondering all this the other day at the Rolling Roda. I have spoke to a few people re the validity of the figures from thoise rollers and they feel the figures are fairly accurate.

Yes if that formula could be found and used it might shed some light on this mystery as to how a car with only 150-16o bhp at flywheel weighing 690 kgs can run 12.2 naturally aspirated Danny does run with Serpentine pulley and belt system in place and I have heard these rob a fair bit of power so this might up his figures by 20 bhp ? giving us up to 180 at the flywheel ??  Don't forget a lot of people quote flywheel bhp figures achieved off the dyno without cooling or transmission losses that factor in when using a rolling road as Danny did.

I for one was expecting to see between 195 - 210 bhp as a flywheel figure so was equally shocked, knowing how quick this car is.

[richie]

went on the rolling road yesterday after smoothing the map out it only made 157-159 fwhp  and that was a lot more than it made at the begining of the session
it still ran 12.2 last time it was out funny how so few ponies can make the car roll along at a fair old pace 

Danny what did it make last year? it might be time for a freshen up,valve job and maybe valve springs need replacing?you runing same plugs n/a and with gas? what afr was it at on the dyno?timing?

wallace drag calc says 12.36@108mph with that weigth and hp

cheers richie

[dannyboy]

went on the rolling road yesterday after smoothing the map out it only made 157-159 fwhp  and that was a lot more than it made at the begining of the session
it still ran 12.2 last time it was out funny how so few ponies can make the car roll along at a fair old pace 

Danny what did it make last year? it might be time for a freshen up,valve job and maybe valve springs need replacing?you runing same plugs n/a and with gas? what afr was it at on the dyno?timing?

wallace drag calc says 12.36@108mph with that weigth and hp

cheers richie

it made 168fwhp on a different dyno the springs are 2 years old cb650 i do run the same plugs all the time  as far as the timing afr info id have to ask ian at power engineering
as i dont know 
he did say the dyno make approx 10-12 hp less than other dynos so it seems to be making the same power and

the other factor nobody seems to be allowing for is how good the driver is 

[Neil Davies]

Danny, in my old car I had a 2276 (10.5:1 comp, FK87 I think) that I bought off Jay Aldred. He'd run it in the first version of his buggy having had it built by John Maher. IIRC it had 48IDFs or 48DRLAs, and Wisecos to cope with a bit of nitrous when Jay had it, so I bought it without carbs/manifolds and without pistons/barrels. I put a set of Mahles on, my 48IDAs and had it rolling roaded at Raceshack.
This is where the numbers get interesting. Jay had had the motor dyno'd when JMR built it, and it came out as 187.5bhp at the flywheel. Understandably I was quite disappointed with 129bhp at the wheels! How can my transmission losses be nearly 60bhp?! However, the purpose of the rolling road for me was to get the car running right and get the engine dialled in as best it could be, and the car ran pretty consistent low 12's (usually low 12.20's to mid 12.teens, best of 12.09) at 105-110mph, which I think is pretty close to where you were without gas?
I had a bit of a think after the first race meet of the year and remembered that the Mustang Dyno that Raceshack used needed a car weight inputting to the software to get all the numbers out. Unfortunately the softwares lowest weight setting that it would cope with was 2000lbs (907kg) and my car with me was 1639lbs (743kg), so a decent amount different. So I did a bit of working out.

First I wanted a correction factor for the weight of the car.
2000lbs/1639lbs=1.22, so that was what I had to work my RWHP figure against.
129bhp x1.22 = 157bhp corrected RWHP. That's more like it!
Then I figured in transmission losses, I'd read that 20% is about right.
157bhp x 1.2 = 188.9 corrected FWHP, close enough to what JMR had tested the motor at on his engine dyno.

Now this might just be a massive thread hijack, but in amongst those ramblings you might find a bit of info that helps you make sense of your numbers!

[richie]

the other factor nobody seems to be allowing for is how good the driver is 

So it should run 9s,but with you driving it runs 12s,is that what you are saying?   Ultimately the timing ticket is all that matters,mph is the best dyno for me

cheers richie

[Shane Noone]

Danny, in my old car I had a 2276 (10.5:1 comp, FK87 I think) that I bought off Jay Aldred. He'd run it in the first version of his buggy having had it built by John Maher. IIRC it had 48IDFs or 48DRLAs, and Wisecos to cope with a bit of nitrous when Jay had it, so I bought it without carbs/manifolds and without pistons/barrels. I put a set of Mahles on, my 48IDAs and had it rolling roaded at Raceshack.
This is where the numbers get interesting. Jay had had the motor dyno'd when JMR built it, and it came out as 187.5bhp at the flywheel. Understandably I was quite disappointed with 129bhp at the wheels! How can my transmission losses be nearly 60bhp?! However, the purpose of the rolling road for me was to get the car running right and get the engine dialled in as best it could be, and the car ran pretty consistent low 12's (usually low 12.20's to mid 12.teens, best of 12.09) at 105-110mph, which I think is pretty close to where you were without gas?
I had a bit of a think after the first race meet of the year and remembered that the Mustang Dyno that Raceshack used needed a car weight inputting to the software to get all the numbers out. Unfortunately the softwares lowest weight setting that it would cope with was 2000lbs (907kg) and my car with me was 1639lbs (743kg), so a decent amount different. So I did a bit of working out.

First I wanted a correction factor for the weight of the car.
2000lbs/1639lbs=1.22, so that was what I had to work my RWHP figure against.
129bhp x1.22 = 157bhp corrected RWHP. That's more like it!
Then I figured in transmission losses, I'd read that 20% is about right.
157bhp x 1.2 = 188.9 corrected FWHP, close enough to what JMR had tested the motor at on his engine dyno.

Now this might just be a massive thread hijack, but in amongst those ramblings you might find a bit of info that helps you make sense of your numbers!

Hi Neil,

That info is all very interesting indeed.

Danny's car was recently run up on a Dyno Dynamics Rolling Road which seem to be becoming more popular in the South East anyway, alledgedly for accuracy and consistency.

I agree with you the numbers are intresting and it's nice to have big one's but the real deal is as you say to endure your motor is performing as well as it can be efficiency wise etc.

My old JMR 2276 made 201 bhp at the flywheel no cooling on John's Stuska dyno. Within a week or two I took the bug down to Power Engineering and had it rolling roaded just for comparison and we got 202 bhp calculated at the flywheel with if memory serves 165 bhp at the wheels so nearly a 40 bhp loss through the transmission.

For those racing with cooling attached ( fanbelts ) the anount of power they sap varies and seems relative to the amount of power the engine produces - in general the more the engine makes the higher the losses seen to drive the fan.

On my new motor fitted with a "power pulley" this saps 14 bhp when belt is fitted.

[dannyboy]

the other factor nobody seems to be allowing for is how good the driver is 

So it should run 9s,but with you driving it runs 12s,is that what you are saying?   Ultimately the timing ticket is all that matters,mph is the best dyno for me

cheers richie

if you want me to get your car into the 8s just let me know