How much money to run 10s in a street car?now with part2, The evolution to turbo

[Neil Davies]

Haha you should really get a set of day moulding raceweight wings. They are LIGHT!!!

Michael

I've only had street weight ones, beautifully made but solid!

[Neil Davies]

Shhhh!!!! we dont want the wait for them to get longer

Neil there is proberly something in the weight saving thread that gives the weight for them all? if not I will weigh some I have and see what the difference is

cheers richie

Richie, I haven't seen the weights given, but if you could weigh them and add them to the weight saving thread then that would be really useful! I'll see if my kitchen scales go heavy enough for repro steel '68 on wings!

[richie]

will do,I have stock front steel,stock repo front steel,stock day mouldings front here so will do those,I got some raceweights ones that i have to collect next week so will weigh them then

cheers richie

[richie]

I got some stuff arrive this week,still just parts gathering but the 82mm welded crank with matching flywheel arrived,with type 4 center main to match this used case that was already modded to take the type 4 center conversion bearing,stroker clearanced,opened for 94mm pistons and full flowed,
 and these 4 lug ercos also came,to be used for the rear with slicks.
I also found a deal on a pair of heads that i want to use,still got to see if they are actually what I want if I manage to get them

cheers richie

[leec]

Hi Richie,

Are you still thinking of developing a Nitrous kit? I was thinking of buying 51.5 IDA's but wondering if its worth going fuel injection and a 50 shot of Nitrous. Will the standard Wisecos cope with that?

Lee

[Andy Sykes]

If it was me efi and Wiscos will put up with a 50 shot easy

[dannyboy]

my mahles have been coping with over 100 pases this season on the gas and 16 of those was a 100hp shot so id be suprised is wisecos would go tits on a measly 50 shot
do it efi and nitrous is a much better setup than a set of those silly door stops 

[richie]

Lee,

yep Andy is right,but way more than that,

you can go IDAs,plenty make it work,the EFI just offers so much more with all the data you get,even the budget set ups like Megasquirt can log so much now,and the ignition side of them is much improved so you dont need all the MSD[or whatever brand] boxes etc and the costs even out,its just a little harder to learn the EFI set up than swap jets in IDAs

I have tried jets that should give 160hp[we all now its never as good as advertised ] worth of nitrous on the thick ring Wisecos,and 80hp jets on regular mahle pistons,I dont see any problem with running 80-100 hp on the thin ring wisecos you have, what fuel you were using would be more critical.There are guys making 250hp+ N/A at 14.5 - 15/1 compression with the thin ring wisecos and they live for several seasons,they are a good strong piston,if you are interested in going to a bigger nitrous jet then we can always figure out a swap on the pistons for the other style

I have 3 different brands of nitrous solenoids to use now,I am thinking of trying them all jetted the same and see what works best,then decide from there if there is a market to supply a kit based on what results I get

cheers richie

[richie]

my mahles have been coping with over 100 pases this season on the gas and 16 of those was a 100hp shot so id be suprised is wisecos would go tits on a measly 50 shot
do it efi and nitrous is a much better setup than a set of those silly door stops 

Perfect,

straight from the horses mouth so to speak    Danny does have the benifit of access to a dyno to make sure its safe before beating on it some more

cheers richie

[dannyboy]

richie
i get my jets from exup racing in bolton, from dyno power runs last week i found 96fwhp jets gave me 92fwhp on the dyno with 120 octane race fuel  and 6 degrees retard not sure what calculator he uses but seems pretty close ?i always get a fuel jet either side and run the mix a bit rich so im sure if i leaned it out a bit on the jets it would make the extra hp but tend to keep it rich and lose a few hp

[leec]

Thanks guys,
This is a long way off right now as got to finish the new car which hasn't really started as yet

Richie, appreciate the offer of sorting some sort of swap, my wisecos are still safely boxed and never taken out!!
Would the Barrels I got from you hold up also?

As much as I love IDA's and that won't ever go away, if I do go the nitrous route efi seems a safer bet.
Lee

[richie]

richie
i get my jets from exup racing in bolton, from dyno power runs last week i found 96fwhp jets gave me 92fwhp on the dyno with 120 octane race fuel  and 6 degrees retard not sure what calculator he uses but seems pretty close ?i always get a fuel jet either side and run the mix a bit rich so im sure if i leaned it out a bit on the jets it would make the extra hp but tend to keep it rich and lose a few hp

Nice

I am sure I asked you this before but are you using single jets at the solenoid or at all 4 foggers? what fuel pressure and bottle pressure is that with?

cheers richie

[dannyboy]

i use a single jet with buffer jets in foggers to regulate the flow to all foggers cant remember if its 3 bar or 5 bar pressure and run the bottle around 900-1000 but was struggling to get 900 on the dyno on friday due to a small leak that i didnt notice until my bottle warmer battery had gone a bit flat 
the single jet setup seems to work really well for me im not sure how much hp you can run through the single jet setup but its giving pretty close hp to jet hp so it must be ok?

[richie]

Thanks,mine was single jet set up as well,really liked it and was easy to get on with,take the jets out and see what it makes then,that will be the most it can make   with my old set up the solenoids maxed out about 200hp level supposedly

cheers richie

[modnrod]

Danny/Ritchie, just a quick question please?
I tried the single jet at the solenoid a few times, the only time it really worked well for me was with short feed lines to the nozzles and a NO2 jet over 0.025", under that it seemed to stutter and be inconsistent (on a bike). It is quite likely it was me that screwed it up, I was using 5mm Mikuni jets into the inlet of a splitter to jet. Fuel always seemed OK though.
What single jet set up did you guys run?
Without mentioning brand names as such, I had intended to get solenoids/nozzles from a UK company, but it's a long way to go from Oz just to get another system that may not work due to my ineptitude!
Any advice welcomed.

[richie]

Danny/Ritchie, just a quick question please?
I tried the single jet at the solenoid a few times, the only time it really worked well for me was with short feed lines to the nozzles and a NO2 jet over 0.025", under that it seemed to stutter and be inconsistent (on a bike). It is quite likely it was me that screwed it up, I was using 5mm Mikuni jets into the inlet of a splitter to jet. Fuel always seemed OK though.
What single jet set up did you guys run?
Without mentioning brand names as such, I had intended to get solenoids/nozzles from a UK company, but it's a long way to go from Oz just to get another system that may not work due to my ineptitude!
Any advice welcomed.

Did you run a single jet in each solenoid?not sure if thats what you mean? 
Mine were all metric,I started at 0.25mm to test the system and went up to 1.40mm with success,when I tried bigger than that I struggle with the tune[fuel system wouldnt flow enough to keep up]
I had the jet in the outlet of the soleniod,to a 4 way split,then lines to each intake runner,total line length from the solenoid to the nozzle must have been at least 16inches using plastic tube,my kit came from Trevor/Highpower as it was known back then,now Wizard of NOS I think,I will be trying his latest ideas for sure.

cheers richie

[modnrod]

Thanks Ritchie.
That's the company I was talking about, I think I will go there next as some of my stuff has past it's use-by date and needs replacement.
Yes, I had the jet at the solenoid end, 1 for each obviously, but I had the jets into the inlet of the splitter right after the solenoid.
Maybe that's why I had issues with it?  I did it that way so the calibrated side of the bike carb jets I was using faced the same way as if it was metering fuel out of a bowl, but perhaps it just made a little "frozen space" between the solenoid seal and the jet?
Never mind, I've heard good things about Trevor's stuff even from here, so will go there.
Thanks again.

[dannyboy]

mine is a nos setup big shot solinoid with a braid line about 12 inch to the splitter where i have single jet  then i have a .18 jet in each nitrous inlet cant remember fuel size jets in fuel inlet i have steel 3/16 brake lines from splitter to foggers around 24 inch each id say? pretty basic stuff the nos wizard setups look great but if it aint broke and all that lol

[modnrod]

Thanks Danny.
Yeah I used the splitter with the jet screwed into it straight onto the solenoid O/P, then truck airline to each nozzle, same setup for the fuel lines. NOS solenoids on both, but only the little ones, I was only running 60HP shot max.........but into a Zed that's enough!
I need new solenoids, and have run out of rebuild kits, and the nozzles are nearly 10 years old now, so maybe time for some shiny stuff in the mail!
Just in case I ever need them.........

[richie]

I got these from Robthemanx yesterday to match the rears he already made me,so a soon as i get a chance next week I will weigh them,and compare them to stock metal,repo metal,regular weight fiberglass[day mouldings] and light day mouldings to see how much weight can be saved and compare £/lbs to see what the best value is,well in my opinion

Apart from that not much progress happened yet

cheers Richie

[richie]

A slight change of plan as i want to go to 5x130 stud pattern,mainly for the better choice of wheels available so these turned up this week,same as on the old cab,and along with front discs they were good enough to stop that from 150mph+ so should work well enough for this,going to add press in wheel studs for the extra safety

[richie]

So I got some time to weight some wings,heres my results all in pounds

Fronts

Stock VW early "sloping headlight "  11.4lbs
Day mouldings stock weight late 'upright headlight" 7.4lbs
Day mouldings medium weight upright       6.3lbs
East coast manx/Rob kilham lightweight sloper 5.2lbs
Day mouldings lightweight sloper 5.3lbs
Creative car craft race sloper[USA] [no headlight bucket] 5.7lbs

Rears

steel repo early   7.3lbs
East coast manx/Rob kilham early 5.4lbs[I would describe this as medium weight glass lay up]
Day mouldings light early 4.4lbs
Steel genuine NOS VW[not sure country of manufacture though] 6.8lbs

I need to dig out a a pattern steel front for comparission still and that should give enough info

If anyone has some to add please do?

cheers richie

 

[dannyboy]

good info worthy of a post in weight saving thread i reckon i will weigh eastcoast gassers rear flared wings for another comparison

[Dead Dog]

Good info Rich
I've got some of Robs panels, not got anything that accurate to measure with though, I'll see what I can find!

[Jussifin]

17000,-e = fresh/strong 2.9 type 4(10), dogring gearbox + raceaxles(4), streetslicks+racewheels(1), any beetle body(2) + plasma for one evening... and low 10s is there... That simple it is.

[Airspeed]

Yeah, ^^ what he said! 

[richie]

17000,-e = fresh/strong 2.9 type 4(10), dogring gearbox + raceaxles(4), streetslicks+racewheels(1), any beetle body(2) + plasma for one evening... and low 10s is there... That simple it is.

   but throw in a fuel & ignition system, cage,seats,brakes etc and it sounds quite expensive

cheers Richie

[richie]

good info worthy of a post in weight saving thread i reckon i will weigh eastcoast gassers rear flared wings for another comparison

Good info Rich
I've got some of Robs panels, not got anything that accurate to measure with though, I'll see what I can find!

What did you find out?

cheers Richie

[richie]

I got Rob to make me a bonnet as he was just finished with the mold,with hinge panel as for me there is nothing worse than having to take the bonnet off just to fill up with fuel,I have had it a couple of weeks but have been away so just got a chance to weigh it.

East coast manx fiberglass bonnet  11.9lbs

NOS 67 bonnet                           21.4lbs

Given the quality and cost of Robs[east coast manx] bonnet it is well worth it

He is now doing me some light rear wings so will add there weight on here when I get them

cheers Richie 

[richie]

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