How much money to run 10s in a street car?now with part2, The evolution to turbo

[dannyboy]

rear east coast  gasser wings about 2kgs 

[richie]

rear east coast  gasser wings about 2kgs 

Thanks Danny,so 4.4lbs for us old farts,same as a lightweight day mouldings rear,I have asked Rob to do me a pair of lightweight rears as well so will add the weight of them when I get them

cheers Richie

[richie]

I added a NOS VW rear to the previous list as well

Also heres a couple of 67 decklids,complete with number plate light unit

Steel genuine vw 12.8
Fiberglass unknown manufacture 9.8lbs

cheers Richie

[Neil Davies]

I know its veering off into the weight saving thread, but what do you consider the optimal overall weight and front/rear weight balance to be? It would be useful to mix and match parts to get the balance right.

[richie]

I know its veering off into the weight saving thread, but what do you consider the optimal overall weight and front/rear weight balance to be? It would be useful to mix and match parts to get the balance right.

Anything over 35% front is good,over 40% front is real good,but I think it comes down to several factors,what good useable panels etc you already have,budget and what you are trying for, for just a race car I would replace all the bolt on stuff with lighter were I could,then if needed put the weight back in were i wanted/needed it,low down right at the front with some lead bar

cheers Richie

[Neil Davies]

I know its veering off into the weight saving thread, but what do you consider the optimal overall weight and front/rear weight balance to be? It would be useful to mix and match parts to get the balance right.

Anything over 35% front is good,over 40% front is real good,but I think it comes down to several factors,what good useable panels etc you already have,budget and what you are trying for, for just a race car I would replace all the bolt on stuff with lighter were I could,then if needed put the weight back in were i wanted/needed it,low down right at the front with some lead bar

cheers Richie

Cheers Richie, that's useful to know. The new car is having a new repro ( thinner and lighter!) spare wheel well fitted, although id originally planned on just a valance and the two bumper mount repair panels. Theres also a stock fuel tank up front, but the back is aluminium panelled out and has no engine bay, I've got a stock steel bonnet but a grp decklid, repro steel wings all round, gutted doors, so glad I'm heading in the right direction. I was a little concerned about adding weight in the wrong places. I'd like the overall weight to be around the same as Headstraight was, 1640lbs with me in it so I hope low 12's would be doable before a power adder... I'm looking forward to the nitrous part of your build!

[Dead Dog]

good info worthy of a post in weight saving thread i reckon i will weigh eastcoast gassers rear flared wings for another comparison

Good info Rich
I've got some of Robs panels, not got anything that accurate to measure with though, I'll see what I can find!

What did you find out?

cheers Richie

All I've got is dodgy bathroom scales, we've some digital ones at home, i'll try to remember to bring them to work 

Yeah Robs panels are really good - very impressed with them!

[richie]

I bought some reasonable quality fishing scales 11 years ago to keep check of the nitrous bottle weights and still use them, simple and cheap enough

cheers Richie

[Zach Gomulka]

I bought some reasonable quality fishing scales 11 years ago to keep check of the nitrous bottle weights and still use them, simple and cheap enough

cheers Richie

Fishermen always lie though!

[richie]

I bought some reasonable quality fishing scales 11 years ago to keep check of the nitrous bottle weights and still use them, simple and cheap enough

cheers Richie

Fishermen always lie though!

Harsh   exagerate is a better word

cheers Richie

[Dead Dog]

lol, that wouldn't really work "Kawwwww got a bonnet this morning, 15 stone it was !!!"

[spanners]

I make my own deck lids and front hoods for weight saving and Money saving ive de skinned the original steel panels and lay up on the back inside, the front hood is only two plys in the central area with extra  reinforcing just at the fixing pin areas, an extra bit of lay up along the 'spine' and the centre sides areas so its strong enough to handle lots, its up to 4 ply in the low 'nose' area as stones will  go straight thro' on the race circuits, i guess its no more than 4 kg, the rear deck lids can be 2 ply,  i had EZ bug here in the UK do me some rear wings at 2 ply, very very light, front wings are modified ITG steel, very light again after ive finished with them,  glass/f wont last  5 mins on the front and no budget for carbon lol.

[Dead Dog]

done some weighing!
 
Sloping Day mouldings wings                              7.4 lb
Bonnet early rob the manx fibreglass hinge panel  12.2lb
Bonnet early original                                         21.8 lb
Front wing upright repro steel                            9.6 lb
Late door original complete other than glass        28.6 lb
Aronson deck lid fibreglass                                  5.6 lb
Semi W deck lid original complete                       15.4lb

done on digital bathroom scales 

[Eddie DVK]

number plate light unit

cheers Richie

The old 65 and later ones are heavy cast iron, but the Mexican ones are lite fiberglass (original hella).
Didn t way the difference, but I thought it was a huge difference.

Regards Edgar

[Zach Gomulka]

Cast aluminium, not iron

[Simpsonshoe]

Cast aluminium, not iron

He is probably thinking of all those VWs made in Detroit.

[Eddie DVK]

Cast aluminium, not iron

Cast aluminium, not iron

He is probably thinking of all those VWs made in Detroit.

haha shit..... no is it alu... but it is realy heavy..
ok let me bring out my magnet and see...

[Neil Davies]

I'm using one of the late ones but I'm going to grind off the strengthening ribs too. That'll be going onto a fibreglass eyebrow lid. I'll weigh it when I get the chance.

[dannyboy]

front east coast gasser early flared wings just over 2kgs each   

[richie]

number plate light unit

cheers Richie

The old 65 and later ones are heavy cast iron, but the Mexican ones are lite fiberglass (original hella).
Didn t way the difference, but I thought it was a huge difference.

Regards Edgar

I got a late plastic Hella version at a swap meet yesterday,weighed it compared to a stock metal late version today

Plastic 8 5/8 Oz
Metal 1lb 7oz

Nice saving so will use the late plastic one for sure,will grind the top ribs off so it looks the same


cheers Richie

[Old Guy]

Hi Richie,

Ron Barrett here from the US.  What a great thread!  I just finished reading the entire thread.  It's now 11:50pm and past my bedtime.  I don't think you'll have any problems getting into the 10's with your setup.  While our Pro Gas car isn't a street car it has run a best of 10.76 @ 123.18mph weighing 1725lbs with Kevin in it.  Even though you wouldn't want to run the 14.9 to 1 that we do, you could still get away with around 10 to 1 (that's as long as you run a cam with a fair amount of overlap to lower the actual cylinder pressure a bit).  That early post had the right idea.  Get Jo's car dialed and then put a 100 shot on it.  Heck, 9's wouldn't be out of the question.  I guess convincing Jo would be the hardest part.  LOL

[richie]

Hi Richie,

Ron Barrett here from the US.  What a great thread!  I just finished reading the entire thread.  It's now 11:50pm and past my bedtime.  I don't think you'll have any problems getting into the 10's with your setup.  While our Pro Gas car isn't a street car it has run a best of 10.76 @ 123.18mph weighing 1725lbs with Kevin in it.  Even though you wouldn't want to run the 14.9 to 1 that we do, you could still get away with around 10 to 1 (that's as long as you run a cam with a fair amount of overlap to lower the actual cylinder pressure a bit).  That early post had the right idea.  Get Jo's car dialed and then put a 100 shot on it.  Heck, 9's wouldn't be out of the question.  I guess convincing Jo would be the hardest part.  LOL

Hi Ron

welcome to the lounge   thankyou

This is a total different car, will be in the UK, its getting there slowly but running the new cabrio takes most of my spare time and money.

Jo's car will stay as it is, we have done a few things to make it more competitive for Pro gas and she is happy chipping away at the ET's in it, when we get the state license issue in the rules figured out she will race over there again in Pro gas.
Will be getting some laps in at irwindale when we are back next so she can get more seat time


It sure would be easier to runs 10s in this car if I weighed what she does


Good luck to you and Kevin at Sac, i don't think your PB will stay that way for long


cheers Richie

[Old Guy]

Richie,

I was just kidding about Jo's car.  Let me know when Jo's going to run at Irwindale and I'll come out and pit for you guys.

Is the engine all together or do you need more parts?  Let me know if you do.  I've got loads of used and new parts.  (Even heads.)

Cheers,

Ron

[richie]

Hi Ron


thanks,

 it will be in the fall I think, but will let you know nearer the time, the car is all together, would like to get the heads freshened and some new springs but hopefully that's all it needs for now

cheers Richie

[Old Guy]

Hi Ron


thanks,

 it will be in the fall I think, but will let you know nearer the time, the car is all together, would like to get the heads freshened and some new springs but hopefully that's all it needs for now

cheers Richie

That's good to hear about Jo's car but I was talking about your new 10 second street car.  Let me know if you still need any parts for that project.  I'm very interested in this thread.  I haven't used nitrous since early 1973.  I'll tell you that ancient story some time.

Cheers Ron

[richie]

That's good to hear about Jo's car but I was talking about your new 10 second street car.  Let me know if you still need any parts for that project.  I'm very interested in this thread.  I haven't used nitrous since early 1973.  I'll tell you that ancient story some time.

Cheers Ron

I am still looking for some heads, I had some lined up but they decided to run them for another year, I am looking for some older comp elims,46/38 valves without a crazy port so I keep some drivability on the road, hand ported ideally, I got most of the rest of it now

cheers Richie

[Old Guy]

I've got several sets of new heads but nothing with valves that large.  Most of mine are 42 x 37.5 or 40 x35.5.  if you think you might be interested in any of them I'll dig some of them out and take some pictures.  One pair is a "D" port CNC copy of the old school 2222 we ran in our Super Gas car.  That car could run 11.20s at 118. I believe they are 42 x 37.5.   

[richie]

Thanks Ron,

I want the bigger valve sizes for sure, and comps seem to cope with the abuse better than a VW head.

I think the nitrous technology moved on a lot for early 70s, it is in theory a lot more manageable and less likely to break stuff now, but we all know sh$t happens

thanks to your input a couple of people have offered me heads now so its all helping to keep the project moving forward

cheers Richie

[Red Rooster]

Ritchie I am doing very similar head wise although starting with bare casting with no seats or guides and doing my own to use old nascar valves etc and keep the ports small enough for the street.

Also so I can pick my valve sizes to suit running a lot of gas.

I had considered the 46x40 heads initially to help get the extra gas out from running on the bottle and still be able to run an off the shelf cam, what's your thoughts on that??

I dropped that idea in favour of doing my own after a conversation where I discovered the comp elims have the same valve seat for both 46 & 48 intakes, apparently the throat and seat are way to big for a 46 valve and the flow figures are terrible. I know your working with off the shelf parts but would the 40 exhaust valve be of more use?

I have also worked a plan out to add some additional cooling into the stock fins which I am keen to try out also to try and keep the temps down on the street I'm just awaiting a little more info on the final width/depth ratio for maximum efficiency from a guy who specialises in heat management for modern electronics and motors. the plan is to machine some smaller narrower and shallower slots into the 4 middle fins leaving the outer fins thick to stop them being damaged to easily. This should add a decent amount of extra surface area if done correctly.

Dave

[richie]

Ritchie I am doing very similar head wise although starting with bare casting with no seats or guides and doing my own to use old nascar valves etc and keep the ports small enough for the street.

Also so I can pick my valve sizes to suit running a lot of gas.

I had considered the 46x40 heads initially to help get the extra gas out from running on the bottle and still be able to run an off the shelf cam, what's your thoughts on that??

I dropped that idea in favour of doing my own after a conversation where I discovered the comp elims have the same valve seat for both 46 & 48 intakes, apparently the throat and seat are way to big for a 46 valve and the flow figures are terrible. I know your working with off the shelf parts but would the 40 exhaust valve be of more use?

I have also worked a plan out to add some additional cooling into the stock fins which I am keen to try out also to try and keep the temps down on the street I'm just awaiting a little more info on the final width/depth ratio for maximum efficiency from a guy who specialises in heat management for modern electronics and motors. the plan is to machine some smaller narrower and shallower slots into the 4 middle fins leaving the outer fins thick to stop them being damaged to easily. This should add a decent amount of extra surface area if done correctly.

Dave

Hi Dave
there is a good reason I am looking for an older set of heads, well 2 actually, the 2nd being I am cheap    And the earlier heads don't have the valves moved over as much, so in my opinion the 46/38 combo is a good as it gets with that casting, with the newer casting I would use the 48/40 option, that's what I use in my turbo motors, presumably if you are using old nascar valves then they are Ti? in which case I would use the new casting and the 48/40 valves, you can still get good port speed if they are hand ported right.
I am interested in what you find out about the extra cooling possibilities, comps are useable on the street for sure, but any extra help they can get would be good

cheers Richie