How much money to run 10s in a street car?now with part2, The evolution to turbo

[richie]

mid 11s with the stock VW super beetle mainshaft 3.78 1st gear, no 091 mods, then broke it hitting the gas to hard off the line and went to a same ratio 1st and slightly better 2nd erco mainshaft ,with better ratio 3rd and 4th and went 11.12 with no other changes.

cheers Richie 

[johandryselius]

Richie!
Do you need some Raceware cylinder/head studs for the engine? I have new sets in mid january (8 & 10 mm).
Johan

Hi Johan,

they dont sound cheap unless you are giving me some?     I will just use stock vw 8mm studs, they work fine for what I am doing


cheers Richie

Richie!
That's fine - if you change your mind - let me know!

Johan

[leec]

Hi Richie,

Are the crank and flywheel you are using wedgemated?
If not will it stay together alright?
Lee

[dannyboy]

my 8 dowel crank and flywheel held together fine on old motor and that ran 10s a fair few times .its on the dyno now in its detuned state for cab project and crank /flywheel is all good 

[richie]

The old nitrous engine was just 8 dowelled and it held up ok so no reason it cant work, wedgemating is just extra insurance. A lot depends on how its put together, some people seem to manage to break the flywheel off easy, others don't, I can't explain why that is  .


cheers Richie

[leec]

The old nitrous engine was just 8 dowelled and it held up ok so no reason it cant work, wedgemating is just extra insurance. A lot depends on how its put together, some people seem to manage to break the flywheel off easy, others don't, I can't explain why that is  .


cheers Richie

Thanks Richie,
As you know I had some concerns on my CB crank for the new motor I am getting ready. There just doesn't seem to be any decent wedgemated cranks out there for sale at the moment

Lee

[dannyboy]

just use a really big spanner to tighten it up lee   

[leec]

just use a really big spanner to tighten it up lee   

Will an adjustable spanner work?

[dannyboy]

mole grips are fine 

[Neil Davies]

Hell, you two are just butchers! Weld it and be done!

Serious question on a related note - what gland nut will you use Richie?

[LGK]

HI Richie,

You're mentioning that you wanted to put the ally pushrods but they are "to expensive" to meet the criteria? As i see you bought some genuine Gasburners...even at a very modest pricelevel you said? So then i really doubt that the ally pushrods wouldn't meet the criteria regarding "budget" if you don't mind me asking???
I suppose the gasburners weren't for free neither?
So let's be honest; You're really looking on 200€ for Ally pushrods? Or is it just because you doubt they will hold on with the K-800 springs?
I'm just asking cause i came across your topic which is again a nice challenge,but i would really like to see you use something different instead of the old trusted "engle camshaft" and the manton chromo noise-knockers...anyway you proved more then once you can "bend those manton suckers" as a cigarette with two fingers !!

Hang on Buddy!

All the best Steve.

[richie]

Serious question on a related note - what gland nut will you use Richie?

Going on the " I sell what I use" it has to be a Scat, since we got them in 36mm I haven't used anything else, the Bergs are good but aren't often available and are way more £££s

cheers Richie

[richie]

HI Richie,

You're mentioning that you wanted to put the ally pushrods but they are "to expensive" to meet the criteria? As i see you bought some genuine Gasburners...even at a very modest pricelevel you said? So then i really doubt that the ally pushrods wouldn't meet the criteria regarding "budget" if you don't mind me asking???
I suppose the gasburners weren't for free neither?
So let's be honest; You're really looking on 200€ for Ally pushrods? Or is it just because you doubt they will hold on with the K-800 springs?
I'm just asking cause i came across your topic which is again a nice challenge,but i would really like to see you use something different instead of the old trusted "engle camshaft" and the manton chromo noise-knockers...anyway you proved more then once you can "bend those manton suckers" as a cigarette with two fingers !!

Hang on Buddy!

All the best Steve.

Hi Steve


some interesting points you make there,
I will start with the wheels, I just couldn't help myself   Seriously whatever we build, even to a budget it has to have a look we as the owner/driver like and I wasn't finding anything that was a sensible weight, strong enough to survive a few wheelies etc and sized to take a slick that I liked and was still ok money wise, a new set of Ercos would have cost more than I got the gasburners for and it seems every car has them.
I didn't know that there are ally pushrods that will take the spring pressure I will use for that money, I was thinking another 100 euros on top of what you quoted, and the original idea for this was to try re create a combo that lots out there already have close too in N/A form and then add the nitrous and see what you gain from it. Having seen some new dual tapered ally pushrods fail spectacularly this summer I know anything can and will fail just like my experience with the mantons a few years ago.

I am not trying to use all the latest greatest parts and tricks as the budget is not going to stretch to say JPM cam, followers/pushrods and springs as much as I would like to try them as the other 2 cars will always get the majority of my time and budget[ new engine for the old car for next year and some new things for the new cab as well] unless you want to send me some to try? I am sure you have plenty of spare just gathering dust

And finally I intend pushing this engine to the limit and way beyond after I achieve the 10 sec drive to the track and back goals, just to see how quick it will go and I don't want to leave a lot of very expensive parts in the trash can at the track  cheap stuff I am fine with

cheers Richie

[Fonz]

And finally I intend pushing this engine to the limit and way beyond after I achieve the 10 sec drive to the track and back goals, just to see how quick it will go and I don't want to leave a lot of very expensive parts in the trash can at the track  cheap stuff I am fine with

cheers Richie

Time to stock up on more nappies?

[richie]

And finally I intend pushing this engine to the limit and way beyond after I achieve the 10 sec drive to the track and back goals, just to see how quick it will go and I don't want to leave a lot of very expensive parts in the trash can at the track  cheap stuff I am fine with

cheers Richie

Time to stock up on more nappies?

Sort of, I put oil containment trays on all the cars now, they are just a little more substantial than what we used back then



I got another piece of the puzzle come in the mail today, some IDA pattern jenvey throttle bodies

[leec]

They are nice Richie,
What do they work out price wise? I appreciate you would need injectors and an ecu on top.
Lee

[richie]

They were used Lee, I got them off the for sale adds on here

cheers Richie

[richie]

Got me thinking about cost of a typical IDA/MSD/Holley pump and regulator cost compared to the Throttle bodies/crank trigger/ECU etc, I need to look into that some more but I did wonder about weight difference so I got a 48 ida I had to hand and compared it to the throttle body with a pair of injectors to get a more even comparision, quite a difference and that's just for one

[Shag55]

Nice Richie but I think those Moran injectors are a little over kill for this project. Lol!

[dannyboy]

lee i dont think there is much cost difference in efi over a pair of decent 51 idas and a full msd setup

[richie]

lee i dont think there is much cost difference in efi over a pair of decent 51 idas and a full msd setup

I did a search on a EFI kit and with just needing a fuel pump and lines you are looking at about £1800-2000 for a complete set up inc fuel pressure reg even & everything else needed.

For 48 ida set up with good used Italian IDAs or New Spanish  and all the MSD stuff needed with a 2 step as well[ EFI has all this included already] so with MSD dizzy, coil, 6Al-2 box & leads and a pair of IDAs with new vents you are looking at around £1550-1700  so their is not a lot of difference and you don't need a big jet box either

cheers Richie

 

[dannyboy]

and you can tune it properly 

[Eddie DVK]

lee i dont think there is much cost difference in efi over a pair of decent 51 idas and a full msd setup

I did a search on a EFI kit and with just needing a fuel pump and lines you are looking at about £1800-2000 for a complete set up inc fuel pressure reg even & everything else needed.

For 48 ida set up with good used Italian IDAs or New Spanish  and all the MSD stuff needed with a 2 step as well[ EFI has all this included already] so with MSD dizzy, coil, 6Al-2 box & leads and a pair of IDAs with new vents you are looking at around £1550-1700  so their is not a lot of difference and you don't need a big jet box either

cheers Richie

 

We use an English company called Omex on our racecars (alfa twinspark and Ford cossi).
They have programmable ignitions (Crank triggered) with or without FI, for those compu nerds at the Dyno place these days (really) easy to tune.
They use standard waste spark ford coils, so as you said not a lot more expensive then a MSD set up.
maybe have a look there.
http://omextechnology.co.uk/index.html
I know the next ignition I buy is programmable one.

Regards Edgar

(Ps Oh and they sell complete sets for different cars and set ups)

(2nd PS the complete sets they sell are also with jenvey throttle body s)

[richie]

Enough talking has been done so time do actually make this happen. So starting with the engine, I am not going to go into every detail, we all know the basis of what makes them work
I am going to use remote oil pressure relief so 1st thing was to block off the bleed hole for the pulley end oil plunger, simple drill out and tap for a plug, at the flywheel end I just use two plungers and shorten one slightly so they are bottomed out tight when the plug is fitted.
Then everything got cleaned and assembled, short motor now together so deck height next

cheers Richie

[richie]

Need to fit the flywheel and check end play then onto the top end

[Andy Sykes]

Awesome to see parts going together can't wait

[richie]

Got a couple of hours in today so got the end play done and flywheel on, clearanced the pulley tin for the full flow fitting and sorted out some good usable tin for the rest of the engine, found a used alternator and stand as well.

cheers Richie

[nicolas]

please tell me more about the oiling system. i am still debating whether to use the original cooler or not and what would be the benefit/drawback of each setup.

[richie]

please tell me more about the oiling system. i am still debating whether to use the original cooler or not and what would be the benefit/drawback of each setup.

Hi Nicolas

There are several things I am doing here, I have deleted the oil cooler in the shroud to use all the air from the fan to go to the heads and cylinders then will use an external cooler to take care of keeping the oil at a happy temperature.
This then allows me to remove the stock oil cooler relief valve so I plug the case were it would bleed pressure off which seals it, then at the flywheel end as it is difficult to block the bleed  hole I use 2 plungers, one upside down which are then slightly longer in total than the plug allows so I shorten one slightly so that when the plug is tightened it squashes them both and seals the top hole off stopping any oil escaping that way.
Then I use a oil filter head with a pressure relief valve built in that bleeds back to a fitting welded into the sump, this means any extra un-needed oil that the pump is trying to push round goes straight back to the sump were it is needed most, not into the case to be thrown around and slowed down on its return to the sump.

The extra bonus to this is that the flywheel bleed hole goes into the number 3 exhaust lifter area normally which then forces lots more oil into the 3/4 valve cover, with this mod the level in that cover is alot lower that it would otherwise be and that helps case breathing in my opinion as well. I don't then vent that valve cover anymore

cheers Richie

[leec]

Any more progress Richie?