Interesting topic.......

[Lee.C]

Just a little observation.....

Its all the "Original" crew/members posting in this thread 

I'm what you would call a "newbie" My Names Andy, i live in Cornwall and i'm 26.... Hello 

I joined the forum due to the knowable input that is about here, the samba is pretty do it my way or no way, and handy for some stuff but i prefer the "been there and done it" kind of info, instead of "i read on the internet one time" info. There's some pretty serious names on here that are all willing to help, some times i feel a bit not worthy to make input. (thats not complaint, just not wanting to waste people time)

I'll be honest, i didn't join due to my interest in Cal Look style, i'm more a slightly lower in the back and corner fast kind of guy..... my 1200 and straight line speed aren't words in the same sentence..... ever.
But although its called Cal Look there's all styles here if you look around, some nice sleepers, patina's german looks ect.

Cheers

EVERYONE is welcome here, Just have a "Open mind"

[Lanny Hussey]

I still visit the lounge every day, as I have since very early on. Not much catches my attention. I haven't owned a VW in a few years but still wrench on them in my spare time. With 3 young kids, the idea of a VW toy seems very remote and impractical. Boating has eclipsed the VW hobby for me.  Sadly, my enthusiasm hasn't returned since the recession hit. I plan on attending the Classic next June after missing a few years, hopefully this will stoke the coals:) For me it's all about seeing old friends and downing Modelos with Damon..
Maybe I'll start building another 67 for my 9 year old:)

[Trond Dahl]

Maybe everyone is to busy building the cars to post on the forums. 

That´s my excuse, but of course I should be better sharing it...
Seems we are mostly all on the same page here and basically should all do our job at having a dynamic and active forum. Not just reading and expecting everyone else to make it interesting.

Thanks too all those who contribute, becuase no matter how "great" facebook is, in my opinion it becomes boring really fast to "like"(read: flip through) ton´s of individual pictures with little or no story and not see it in a bigger picture. Meaning not able to follow a build through a good project thread. I personally do not think facebook will replace forums, but it does take away a lot of the chit chat and "on the fly picture sharing" for sure.

[Arnoud]

That's why I always enjoyed(enjoy)reading blogs-people tell a story- step by step,but then there's no interaction.

Good discussion here though!

[Russell]

I still visit the lounge every day, as I have since very early on. Not much catches my attention. I haven't owned a VW in a few years but still wrench on them in my spare time. With 3 young kids, the idea of a VW toy seems very remote and impractical. Boating has eclipsed the VW hobby for me.  Sadly, my enthusiasm hasn't returned since the recession hit. I plan on attending the Classic next June after missing a few years, hopefully this will stoke the coals:) For me it's all about seeing old friends and downing Modelos with Damon..
Maybe I'll start building another 67 for my 9 year old:)

Lanny, now you are a miss in the scene, your cars are always top drawer, hope that classic rekindles for you.

Cheers Russell

[Russell]

Lastly one for Russell

when was the last time you started a relevant to this site thread? a build thread? or Cal look story etc? we are all as bad as each other    

cheers Richie

So firstly thanks to everyone for finding this interesting to comment.

Richie, you should no better....  back when I found the lounge I posted a lot, this was the time when I was in full on gasser hunt, however over recent years there has been the odd negative comment about me and my cars and the final straw was the fall out with Super VW on the magazine shoot photos of lightening bug, I decided that keeping myself thoughts and cars to myself and away from the internet seemed the best way forward on most occasions. I am very lucky to have the cars I have and have had the opportunity to show/race them on both sides of the pond.. we mentioned before that maybe we were helping to bring youth into our hobby and sometimes maybe a little History as well. I also think that the pinnacle of any car enthusiasts hobby is to see there car featured in print.

Don't get me wrong I realise that we all cant afford $00000 cars but when you look at a magazine I want to see cars that inspire me...

On the patina thing, I love nothing more than an original unrestored car with genuine patina, not RUST, some of the cars now are cars that should be saved not let to look worse.

I think VW's have seen a status change over the last few years as some early VW's are now surfacing in the classic market and are being taken seriously.

Russell

[fish]

This really is an interesting thread with variations of opinions and taste in cars, passionate none the less about the humble bug.

It is these threads and differences of opinion that eventually sparks an excitement and brings people together in open discussion.

I personally feel blessed to be in the digital company of so many different but likeminded people some of whom I call mentors and I'm honoured to read, discuss, learn and sometimes contribute to this Forum and our ever-changing hobby.

The one thing I don't understand is why people get so emotional about others' comments.........do what you like if it makes you happy and you are not hurting anybody enjoy your experience; Always.

A lot of Cool people and Cool cars on this Forum even if its slowed down some.

Russell, i understand where you coming from regarding magazine publications and I'm envious of your collection.......man i'd love to meet some of you guys.


Bonza Ben

[Good-Old-Ragtop60]

Hi, I´ve joined this Forum not long ago.
But I´m still more than happy that I found it! 
Since the Age of 13 I´m into Beetles and over the time I got intersted in the Cal Look.
(thanks to the DFL and Helge Ohmes here in Germany)

It is really interesting to read about the old times and to see the vintage pics.
The history is fascinating for me and I show respect to the guys which are involved so long.

Sometimes I`m a little bit restrained with comments but as Lee said, there`s no reason for!

But now I´ll start a new Topic and show you how my bug envolved over the time more in the Cal Look Way. 

Keep the Lounge alive! (may the winter month promote it)

[karl h]

interesting discussion, i realized the decline in posts too...
but i disagree that you have to spend a zillion bucks/euros on a car o have it look nice. it just takes alot of work and dedication.
i aquired a new 67 project, since my old one was sold. thought about doing a build thread, but last time i did the interest wasnt that stellar. one thing that helps is if a forum has a "like" button. people can just click on it instead of a "good job" post, it makes the poster aware that people check out his work.
i think i will just start a thread

[RobtheManx]

I am also a constant visitor , but rarely comment . I think this is half the problem . Its in our hands to make it great again , so like Karl above , I'm also gonna start a build thread . Unfortunately its yet another 67 ! . Never really had a cal looker as always seemed to be busy with other cars , so this is kind of a big deal for me , finally getting round to building one of my dream cars .

Long live the lounge , I know I will have plenty of questions which need expert answers !

hanks , RobT

[karl h]

there cant be enough 67s!

[Shane Noone]

My two cents worth then and I agree with a lot of the comments already posted on this thread. So to start off with one of Russell's paragraphs from his original post,

"Why is that there seems to be nothing interesting going on in the VW Scene anymore, the lounge once a great place with great people, even seems to be quite and most topics are of little interest, over the last year or so Ive seen our loveable little bugs as they were truly intended for standard and stock grow on me even more, so much so that whilst I love the history and the old gassers and cal look, the whole hobby seems to have went AWOL, I mean how much same bus's and patina cars can we take....."

What has caught my attention here in the UK and not entirely sure if the same has happened elsewhere around the VW globe at the same time ?  Is the huge shift within our scene over to all models of VW Buses and Vans early through to latest.  Guys and Girls that I once knew and recognised in the UK scene as die hard fans of the T1 / Beetle / Bug /Ghia / T3 have all jumped ship. Now some of these may still have there trusty sedans tucked away in the corner looking all forlorn or with a dust sheet draped over and others have sold up to invest all their $ into T2/T25/T4/T5 etc......

I'm not entirely sure why this is ?  Is it purely taking the kids and wife around to shows in more comfort ?  If so why is this all of a sudden happening now and not 10/20/30 years ago...?
Is it simply a roll on effect from easier and cheaper import prices and availability of early Buses and parts that early buses prices then skyrocketed , then bay windows and the fallout was people still mad to own a bus / van looked at cheaper T25's then T4's and now T5's as still a more affordable option than early vehicles yet offer even more comfort over the early models......

I've never owned any of the above simply because for me I have never had the urge too. Have driven friends one's though on occasion and still didn't feel the need to own one.

The recession and post recession, seems to me it's not that folk don't have the money anymore, it's more a question they are much more budget aware and due to global insecurities in jobs / housing stock etc a lot more reluctant to spend the big $ and not be in a position to get there investment back too. So it seems values have plummeted with our beloved modified T1's........and people aren't willing to invest ?

Lastly maybe all the facebook pages out there and ease of sharing that way has made people lazier to come onto tech based forums ?  Activity on more social based forums like Vzi that we have here in the UK still seems quite lively ?

So as Russell has asked , How can we fix this ?  I'm not sure except for what others have said, keep the faith and keep your sedans and dragsters and let's all make an effort to keep the lounge and other tech forums going with valuable and interesting topics.

I could be and probably have got this all completely wrong so stand corrected if so and no offence meant to anyone.

Cheers, Shane.

[Lids]

It might be as simple as not enough tits and arses!  Where is Shubee when you need him

[richie]

Take a nice £5000 stock bug, add £20,000 and turn it into a nice Cal looker,value £12-15,000

Take a shitty £5000 bus, make it look even more rusty & shit and ruin the suspension/safety/point of a bus, value £20-25,000

but hey all the cool kids are doing it, right? they must be as its all over the magazines

[Martin Greaves]

Maybe everyone is to busy building the cars to post on the forums.  

What's your excuse then

What for not posting on here that much.

As you know Lee I been busy working on the NSU and yes I do need to do a update on here.

[BossHogg76]

Take a nice £5000 stock bug, add £20,000 and turn it into a nice Cal looker,value £12-15,000

Take a shitty £5000 bus, make it look even more rusty & shit and ruin the suspension/safety/point of a bus, value £20-25,000

but hey all the cool kids are doing it, right? they must be as its all over the magazines

FFS Richie if my wife reads your post I'm bang in trouble !!!!   

This topic seems to have got more people replying in the Da Works topics, or posts about shows.

I'm as bad as anyone, there are at least 3-4 topics I've read in Da Works, and i really should reply to. As i know that even just a "good work, looking good" puts a smile on a face and when you're questioning whether you really want to go into the garage, something like that makes the difference. (or it did for me)

I can't comment on the Show Scene as I'm not part of it, though hopefully next year I will be able to make at least the Cal Look Drag day and if possible EBI. As for magazines, I gave up reading them as in a couple of clicks I can read about a full build about something that interests me, rather than reading about one car i like and four i don't.

[Fiatdude]

I still update my build 'blog' occasionally -- the build is pretty much over, I guess it is more of a 'what I've broken blog' now LOL -- -- I do add a comment on here sometimes, guess I need to encourage other builders more often -- --  but I've been enjoying my track adventures more and more and my car is now more a 'German-look' than a cal-look, so my car blog doesn't get very many replies from other people to it,,, so sometimes I feel like I'm just talking to myself --

But the people here on the this site are the best and I enjoy coming back everyday to see their insights -- but like everyone has pointed out, just not as many as there use to be

[Bernard Newbury]

Take a nice £5000 stock bug, add £20,000 and turn it into a nice Cal looker,value £12-15,000

Take a shitty £5000 bus, make it look even more rusty & shit and ruin the suspension/safety/point of a bus, value £20-25,000

but hey all the cool kids are doing it, right? they must be as its all over the magazines

For me this just about sums it up. Ask any 20 year old who has just got into the scene with a rat look bug/bus and to him it is a fresh , cool scene bursting with new ideas and is the best thing since sliced bread. It would be interesting to see the stats of a rat look or van forum. I have to own up that I rarely post but saying that I still enjoy this forum, Cal Look and quick VW’s.  

[Rick Meredith]

I'm still on here daily.

I haven't been posting as much as I used to. Rather not go into the reasoning here. It's nothing having to do with The Lounge or it's management.

[Rocket Ron]

Lastly one for Russell

when was the last time you started a relevant to this site thread? a build thread? or Cal look story etc? we are all as bad as each other    

cheers Richie

So firstly thanks to everyone for finding this interesting to comment.

Richie, you should no better....  back when I found the lounge I posted a lot, this was the time when I was in full on gasser hunt, however over recent years there has been the odd negative comment about me and my cars and the final straw was the fall out with Super VW on the magazine shoot photos of lightening bug, I decided that keeping myself thoughts and cars to myself and away from the internet seemed the best way forward on most occasions. I am very lucky to have the cars I have and have had the opportunity to show/race them on both sides of the pond.. we mentioned before that maybe we were helping to bring youth into our hobby and sometimes maybe a little History as well. I also think that the pinnacle of any car enthusiasts hobby is to see there car featured in print.

Don't get me wrong I realise that we all cant afford $00000 cars but when you look at a magazine I want to see cars that inspire me...

On the patina thing, I love nothing more than an original unrestored car with genuine patina, not RUST, some of the cars now are cars that should be saved not let to look worse.

I think VW's have seen a status change over the last few years as some early VW's are now surfacing in the classic market and are being taken seriously.

Russell

As you said its nice to see some some inspirational cars, F*#k the negative comments let's see some project photos please

[old dub lover]

Take a nice £5000 stock bug, add £20,000 and turn it into a nice Cal looker,value £12-15,000

Take a shitty £5000 bus, make it look even more rusty & shit and ruin the suspension/safety/point of a bus, value £20-25,000

but hey all the cool kids are doing it, right? they must be as its all over the magazines

Just because the cool kids are doing it it doesnt make it right

the whole bus "scene" is crazy at the moment

[Lee.C]

Yep I got sukered in....

But it is ALOT nicer than a tent

My 68....

[Brian Rogers]

Thank you Russ Riche for this topic. I split my time between VWs and Telecaster guitars. Both are money and time pits. I will now publicly thank Javabug for Dell idle jets and Taylor for help with engine hardware. THIS is what makes the VW crowd so good for the little guys. I feel lucky to possess the skills and tools I have to build something that talks back to me thanks to John Muir's interpitation. You can blame Kieth Richards for the patina / relic look started in the guitar sphear of things. He'd said Fender aught to age their instruments, play the hell out of them before they were sold. The Custom Shop did just that and made bank on it. Anybody can relic a guitar, cars not much for than dull the paint produce some rust instant relic. Primer was a fad in my East LA lowrider days and some suade bugs still catch my attension. Money is a big deal here and with guitars. I'd rather find a sweet old well played Tele or survivor '67 sedan or in my case a 'vert. Tune it set it up to play or drive it, with ongoing effort to improve the breed.
Thanks to all who contribute to the forum in ansering my dumb questions.
Carry on

[plasticblack]

Things do seem pretty flat of late and IMHO there are several reasons that this might be happening.

Firstly across the VW scene (certainly in the UK) the 'Buses Craze' that has proliferated now for nearly 10 years has caused Beetles to become a virtual non-entity and seen almost all the money in an already 'depressed' financial market has gone to those that fix/repair vans & buses.

Also the insane prices for vans/buses that are pretty much scrap has forced up the prices of anything that basically isn't a heap of rust. When a 40-50 year-old pile of rusty van is costing the same as a (modern) Porsche... Something has gone very, very wrong indeed.

Magazines have featured and focussed on Vans & Buses to an extent that has pushed the Beetle right out of favour in an attempt to 'cash in' on the craze.

I've attended some UK sows during the last few years where I could only count a few Beetles and the rest were all buses. It's simply boring on several levels. I know right off that I'm never going to be able to afford to by a bus (not that I would want one anyway) but I totally switch-off to that whole area of VW's. I've arrives at shows (that I used to love) and been away before lunchtime...

This has meant that Repairers & parts Sellers Have thought that they can charge frankly exorbitant prices to repair these rusting buses, which filters down into the few fold that still favour beetles.

I love the Lounge and look almost everyday. I'm happy that Beetles are the norm here as it really is a refreshing change from other forums.

Paul

[BeetleBug]

Take a nice £5000 stock bug, add £20,000 and turn it into a nice Cal looker,value £12-15,000

Take a shitty £5000 bus, make it look even more rusty & shit and ruin the suspension/safety/point of a bus, value £20-25,000

but hey all the cool kids are doing it, right? they must be as its all over the magazines

For me this just about sums it up. Ask any 20 year old who has just got into the scene with a rat look bug/bus and to him it is a fresh , cool scene bursting with new ideas and is the best thing since sliced bread. It would be interesting to see the stats of a rat look or van forum. I have to own up that I rarely post but saying that I still enjoy this forum, Cal Look and quick VW’s.  

Ask any 40+ year old and you will find that this is the exact reason why he sold his bug (with a loss) and bought a Porsche.

[mungouk]

I hardly ever post stuff on internet forums .....but I do look at a couple most days ...this one included.
 I was always of the opinion that no-one would be really particularly interested in what I was  up to ..and I'd probably
 be a bit sensitive about what people  might say if I did a build thread.....
 Maybe I should try harder and contribute a bit more .......who's to say .
 I try not worry about stuff on the internet too much .....I love arsing about with VW's by myself and with my mates and if anyone
like what I've done then that's cool.
 I built a shiny cal look oval bug over a couple of years that got on the cover of Volksworld in the summer and I was chuffed.
happy days .

[jick]

I think it's great that someone has brought this up, also the fact that it's Russell, a person who has a pretty strong presence on the scene it's got the attention it deserves, the fact that it seems to have rallied the lounge troops and collectively it seems we realise the need for us all to make a bit more effort...
Many different reasons for the downturn have been put forward and I'm sure that for each individual it's a mixed up bunch of many factors...
For me, over the last 7-8 years I have become increasingly bored by the sea of what amounts to fast "Resto-cals"   I'm honestly struggling to think of a cal-looker built in the relatively recent past that has excited me.
Other thoughts..... I have a few long term traditional Hotrod / kustom projects on the go.... Projects that, like the California look, have pretty strict "rules/styles/do's/dont's etc"
However I see so much subtle ( and not so!) creativity and effort made in these circles to stand out a little...I find the Cal look scene lacking here.
Okay, I know....I'm a hypocrite..My car is a factory colour with chrome trim......if I was building another cal-looker now it would be very very different, which leads me into another angle, most of us have been on here with our long running projects or drivers.... I, for one feel that I've done my "garage-looker" car to death on this forum... And I'm hesitant  to post any updates until it's on the road...Maybe some of you feel the same about your own cars?   (And mine)
Also,  since having to move out of London 3 years ago to the Midlands to assist my parents-in-law I have much more time to actually spend working in the garage..... Essential, for my own sanity!  Instead of being on my PC.
If all of us old forum faces had brand new projects on the go I'm sure this forum would be thriving again.... I really wish I had the time to build another cal looker using all the ideas/innovations I've jotted down over the years...... But I have other fish to fry for the next 5-10 years I reckon......but you never know?
Also, I've gotta say Russell, that as the original poster, you've got to see the irony of bringing up the lack of site traffic, (quite rightly) and then going on to say you've made a conscious decision to not post stuff... .. You have a lot of interesting stuff to bring to the table.....you could pretty much fill the whole forum by yourself! Haha.
Anyway, I could go on about a whole variety of factors, but I'll leave it at that and in the meantime I'll post some more car stuff,  updates on my long-ass VW project, and maybe some off-topic stuff too...
Keep it coming guys!

James

[Lee.C]

I think it's great that someone has brought this up, also the fact that it's Russell, a person who has a pretty strong presence on the scene it's got the attention it deserves, the fact that it seems to have rallied the lounge troops and collectively it seems we realise the need for us all to make a bit more effort...
Many different reasons for the downturn have been put forward and I'm sure that for each individual it's a mixed up bunch of many factors...
For me, over the last 7-8 years I have become increasingly bored by the sea of what amounts to fast "Resto-cals"   I'm honestly struggling to think of a cal-looker built in the relatively recent past that has excited me.
Other thoughts..... I have a few long term traditional Hotrod / kustom projects on the go.... Projects that, like the California look, have pretty strict "rules/styles/do's/dont's etc"
However I see so much subtle ( and not so!) creativity and effort made in these circles to stand out a little...I find the Cal look scene lacking here.
Okay, I know....I'm a hypocrite..My car is a factory colour with chrome trim......if I was building another cal-looker now it would be very very different, which leads me into another angle, most of us have been on here with our long running projects or drivers.... I, for one feel that I've done my "garage-looker" car to death on this forum... And I'm hesitant  to post any updates until it's on the road...Maybe some of you feel the same about your own cars?   (And mine)
Also,  since having to move out of London 3 years ago to the Midlands to assist my parents-in-law I have much more time to actually spend working in the garage..... Essential, for my own sanity!  Instead of being on my PC.
If all of us old forum faces had brand new projects on the go I'm sure this forum would be thriving again.... I really wish I had the time to build another cal looker using all the ideas/innovations I've jotted down over the years...... But I have other fish to fry for the next 5-10 years I reckon......but you never know?
Also, I've gotta say Russell, that as the original poster, you've got to see the irony of bringing up the lack of site traffic, (quite rightly) and then going on to say you've made a conscious decision to not post stuff... .. You have a lot of interesting stuff to bring to the table.....you could pretty much fill the whole forum by yourself! Haha.
Anyway, I could go on about a whole variety of factors, but I'll leave it at that and in the meantime I'll post some more car stuff,  updates on my long-ass VW project, and maybe some off-topic stuff too...
Keep it coming guys!

James

Very well put dude 

[mg]

Seems the Cal Look cars have a very limited performance window. You can bang gears around town and across every intersection. So to make it more interesting you take it to the drag strip and race your cal look buddies. Then since these 12 second street cars are highly stressed 180hp engines they do have occasional reliability problems. So the penny-wise owners then stop racing them and instead choose to display them in parking lots. At least that was my DKP experience. Parking lots and buses bore me to no end.

I think the Cal Look interest is being dulled by all the newer cars that match or many times exceed the performance limits of the Cal Look car.
In reality the performance car hobby has far eclipsed any performance advantages a 50 year old 12 second street bug once enjoyed.
Compared to cars of the 60s to 80s, today’s factory sports/performance cars can out muscle a bug in every department.

At the road race tracks young drivers are finding their limits cornering, braking and accelerating.
VW owners should aspire to an air cooled 911. An 80s 3.2 is 225 reliable hp, called a 275k mile motor because they can last that long.
But the 911 motor is only half of the attraction. The advantage a 911 has over other cars is it is lighter so it can brake later and carry more cornering speed.
If you like the thrill of your cal look banging gears and pulling a couple car lengths on the street imagine the same feeling when you pull a few car lengths on braking or cornering speed too.

There is chop top cal bug built nice for sale I see often.
 Decades ago I would have finished that car to look like the chops that were at OCIR back in the day.
But now building such a car that can’t turn or stop very well seems like too much of a compromise.

[alex d]

The Bus bubble is totally ridiculous, had to say it