Have I just bought the worst berg shifter?

[beetletom]

I absolutely love them, the way they feel, and how positive they are!

But I've just bought the worst one I've ever owned 😂

It's so sloppy, and the chrome has started peeling on the shaft??

I thought it was pretty recent, as the newer style handle?

But the boot is really crappy quality too!?(not at all like the others I've had)

And it's really short! Think I've been done out of £150 😞


Here's the pics I bought it from... You can hardly make out the shaft is flaking
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Paul Bahnstormerz]

Was it new? If so send it back.


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[beetletom]

Nope 2nd hand

[smurf67]

That is short and boot looks very sloppy compared to mine around the shaft itself

[Fastbrit]

There was a cheap copy (rip-off) made a few years ago – I suspect that's what you've got, just fitted with a Berg handle...

[Jim Ratto]

There was a cheap copy (rip-off) made a few years ago – I suspect that's what you've got, just fitted with a Berg handle...

Yep

[Iryanu]

Quality of the casting looks "off", sloppy boot. Eurgh. Looks snide.  Bummer.

[leec]

Send it back and get your money back off the seller?

[beetletom]

Ok cheers! Yep asked for money back

Fake berg shifters, heard it all now! Whoa!

[Neil Davies]

Bugpack did a very Berg-like shifter, so it could be one of those with a Berg handle. Not a bad shifter but not what you paid for, so send it back!

[max Der Bahnstormerz]

why don"t you just get one from Berg's? I saw them being sold for crazy prices back in the UK last week. I got a new one from Berg's for my bus and saved approx 50%

[leec]

why don"t you just get one from Berg's? I saw them being sold for crazy prices back in the UK last week. I got a new one from Berg's for my bus and saved approx 50%

This! Already suggested this to him on his wanted advert. The berg team are so nice too

[Torben Alstrup]

The CSP 40% shifter is actually just as good or better than the Berg´s (There is no bus version though, at least I don´t think there is) I stopped using the Berg version over 5 years ago. But you can´t beat the looks.

T

[Fastbrit]

Best shifter? Vintage Speed...

[Torben Alstrup]

Best shifter? Vintage Speed...

Hmm! Opinions vary 

[Fastbrit]

Hmm! Opinions vary 

Indeed they do. They vary between me being right and you being wrong! 

[Paul Bahnstormerz]

I'm not using my Berg shifter, prefer the Bugtech feel now I've rebuilt the car. But the Vintage Speed linkage is way ahead of the old Berg linkage


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[Torben Alstrup]

I'm not using my Berg shifter, prefer the Bugtech feel now I've rebuilt the car. But the Vintage Speed linkage is way ahead of the old Berg linkage


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In what way?

[Paul Bahnstormerz]

I'm not using my Berg shifter, prefer the Bugtech feel now I've rebuilt the car. But the Vintage Speed linkage is way ahead of the old Berg linkage


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In what way?

The shifter, is a nice height, doesn't have a t handle to hit my knees. The throw is short, it feels shorter than the 60% reduced Berg I have, they claim 62% reduced throw but it feels shorter, can I really judge that 2%? It's just solid shifting. The reverse lock out is stiff against the two springs. I also like the fact the ball that fits into the cup on the shift rod, is adjustable in height. Although I understand the looks may not be for everyone, the rubber band fitting for a hurst line lock is a pain to fit though.

The VS linkage, adjustable like the CSP linkage I replaced. But unlike CSP who sell a return spring as an extra, vintage speed comes with a good solid return spring. The rotating part is much sturdier and not fitted to a case stud, the base plate is bolted to the rear to generator stand studs with centralising nuts they have a conical seat. Add in the fact it doesn't need to be unbolted from the carbs to remove due to the slip joint fittings. The Berg linkage and the drop arms, bending end pieces bars to sync just grew old, I ditched it in favour of centre pull long ago, in favour of cheap bugpack setup, before CSP then Vintage Speed

[Dominick Luppino]

I can tell you first hand that the base isn't the ones that were made here at Dee Engineering, we made the base parts for the Berg Shifters, just saying, they look too shinny and real rough. My guess it may have been a Berg at one time and someone broke the base and replaced it with a cheap China part, that would explain on why it's real sloppy.

[max Der Bahnstormerz]

looks like an EMPI base with a Berg shaft

[Torben Alstrup]

[quote author=Paul Bahnstormerz
The VS linkage, adjustable like the CSP linkage I replaced. But unlike CSP who sell a return spring as an extra, vintage speed comes with a good solid return spring. The rotating part is much sturdier and not fitted to a case stud, the base plate is bolted to the rear to generator stand studs with centralising nuts they have a conical seat. Add in the fact it doesn't need to be unbolted from the carbs to remove due to the slip joint fittings. The Berg linkage and the drop arms, bending end pieces bars to sync just grew old, I ditched it in favour of centre pull long ago, in favour of cheap bugpack setup, before CSP then Vintage Speed
[/quote]
Its kinda funny. I see and hear a lot of people wanting/using the centre pull linkage. The reasons are multiple, from "easy to adjust" to "prettier" than a hex bar system. They are most likely all right in their own mind. But the fact is that these systems, VS, CSP, GWD, Scat or what ever CANNOT stay in sync cold and warm. It is also a fact that if you do a 0 - 30 - 50 - 75% and WOT throttle measurement the throttle plates DO NOT follow the same opening pattern. One of the above is actually close, but not perfect. a decent hex bar system does not have this problem. Peoiple tend to neglect that for the looks. The Berg system is somewhat clumsy, I do agree on that. Also it is a PITA to get into sync. But once its there its there. My personal record is 18600 miles without the need of a readjust on a customers engine with a good hex bar system. Not a Berg though. Other people may have done even better.

T

[DWL_Puavo]

As for the berg linkage and hexbars: both worn out and become a bit sloppy. Bergs tend to worn from the top round bar's housings in the ends of the base. I've got now slack on both of them, thankfully about the same amount on the ends so it can be used. Some bearings or even some bushing could be great. Too bad it isn't that easy to disassemble... or maybe to asseble proprely after disassembling But I've always got carbs to sync properly even if the "one turn from the drop arm" isn't the most delicate amount of adjustment. Still when checked with Carbtune2, it's easy to get them just fine.

I've also had hexbar that had worn out so, that the end ball was a bit visible from the hexbar's top I'm not sure how long it had been used before it got into my table, but at least it's easy to repair with bushings.

What I would like more from pretty much every linkage is progression. If you got a good stroker with dual carbs, the amount of pedal movement needed from idle to way-too-much-for-city-centre is ridiculously small. If there could be way more progression for just that first ~2-5 degrees of carb butterfly opening, it would make city driving more smooth. I'm thinking about add-on -linkage for the carb itself...

ps. CSP:s bus shifter is wonderful. Too bad I've only got Scat's that had to be modified and strenghtened for even substandard usage compared to CSP's or Berg's.

[modnrod]

I

What I would like more from pretty much every linkage is progression.

Cable linkage with a dual cable joiner like most bikes would do it well probably. Then have adjustments on the "pull" slide at the joiner, and on the cable end at each carb, and it would all fit neatly out of sight for the most part.
To get an increasing-ratio, eg. larger cable movement for the first half compared to the second half, you could change or adjust the cable "cams" between the centre pull and carb shaft perhaps?

PS: carb shaft "arms" riding on variable-distance "cams" like Holley pump cams maybe?

[Iryanu]

I

What I would like more from pretty much every linkage is progression.

Cable linkage with a dual cable joiner like most bikes would do it well probably. Then have adjustments on the "pull" slide at the joiner, and on the cable end at each carb, and it would all fit neatly out of sight for the most part.
To get an increasing-ratio, eg. larger cable movement for the first half compared to the second half, you could change or adjust the cable "cams" between the centre pull and carb shaft perhaps?

PS: carb shaft "arms" riding on variable-distance "cams" like Holley pump cams maybe?

Like a sync link you mean?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1381017

http://www.limebug.net/product/view/2128/sync-link-throttle-linkage-idf-delortto

[modnrod]

Huh! Lookit that!

Yeah, a bit like that, but for full variable throttle travel having a slider running on top of a cam plate (on the throttle shaft end).

Uhhmmm, looks like an awful lot of shiny billet, priced to suit I guess! I don't doubt it works very well though.

[Paul Bahnstormerz]

I couldn't imagine not fiddling with an engine for 18600 miles lol


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[Torben Alstrup]

Puavo. I agree on the sensivity of the hex bar, or any system. One of the problems to overcome it is that the pedal travel in the beetle or bus for that matter is relatively short compared to a newer car. I´ve seen almost all wire systems on the market. Sofar none of them has really impressed me to the point that i would want to swop to it compared to a good hex bar system. The day that someone makes a wire pull system that is easy to work with, do not look like a bicycle lost its wheels in there, and is slightly progressive, i might be convinced :-)

[neil68]

Hex bar linkage bearing upgrade to remove play from worn ball ends:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1725307

[DWL_Puavo]

PS: carb shaft "arms" riding on variable-distance "cams" like Holley pump cams maybe?

I've got a BMW throttle body in my shelf with "integral progressive linkage" that operates the buttefly shaft via links in triangle like arrangement. It's very effective but I would need at least some tech LEGO's to prototype as it's quite hard just to visualise the movements in your head. If something like that could be arranged either straight to the linkage or maybe to the carbs themselves. At least it'll need additional fixed pivotal point that maybe could be arranged to the carb's intake bolt.

Supposedly easiest way is to use center pull linkage that has "cam profile" for the throttle cable. But what fun is in easy 

One possibility, maybe a quite good one, would be an linkage similar to base drum pedals. They've got a few variations for making straight movement into circular one with some progressiveness. Usually with chains or belts and "cam profiles" but also with different linkages.



Different types of progressive base drum pedals:
https://thumbs1.static-thomann.de/thumb/bdbmagic/pics/bdb/142540/10777380_800.jpg
https://thumbs1.static-thomann.de/thumb/bdbmagic/pics/bdb/282815/5677851_800.jpg
https://thumbs1.static-thomann.de/thumb/bdbmagic/pics/bdb/337033/9620984_800.jpg

ps. sorry for totally hijacking the topic - shame about the fake berg's shifter