Small powerhouses and old school

[JS]

Congratulations Johannes! Can you please tell us about the valve train parts used in the build?

[benssp]

Hello guys,

I am happy and exited to tell you that a new, very aggressive," RAPTOR mouse" was born yesterday.

1795cc, mag case, 043 heads and ida 48 carbs.

228,3hp/7990rpm and 231Nm(166.9lbs)6200rpm corrected(Din).

Have a nice weekend.

Johannes Persson

[Johannes Persson]

JS,
Cam is jpm01005(10mm cam lift 271deg at 0.05" 105 lobe center), ceramic lifters, GB 160000psi pr, jpm 1.55:1 rockers two stud, ti valves, jpm alumec retainers, OTEVA75 valve springs and single grove 7deg keepers.

Alu push rods will soon be installed.

/Johannes

[Rasser]

Dual valve springs?   if yes, do you then plan on using single springs when installing the alu pushrods?

Oh, and a big congrats on the impressive results!!!

[vwcab]

Yes,impressive numbers 

[Zach Gomulka]

What's the bore x stroke of that mouse?

[Johannes Persson]

Zach,

The bore is 91mm and stroke is 69mm.

/Johannes

[Tom G.]

Johannes you are crazy .. You should try to sign in the guiness book of records for highest VW aircooled HP numbers/liter.....


I am speakless...

And we are waiting for pictures and videos....


Nice weekend too...
Greetings from Germany
Tom

[Johannes Persson]

Rasser,

The valve springs are duals but has increased installed height, pressures at closed valve is 100lbs and about 250lbs at 15.5 mm.
The pressure is good for 9000rpm+.
/Johannes

[Rasser]

Johannes: remember the type4 heads you did for Thomas from MIB?  He just had his 2366 engine on the dyno today, and guess what -  233nm/6200rpm    233hp/7400. almost similar numbers (except the ccm) 

Hello guys,

I am happy and exited to tell you that a new, very aggressive," RAPTOR mouse" was born yesterday.

1795cc, mag case, 043 heads and ida 48 carbs.

228,3hp/7990rpm and 231Nm(166.9lbs)6200rpm corrected(Din).

Have a nice weekend.

Johannes Persson

[JS]

JS,
Cam is jpm01005(10mm cam lift 271deg at 0.05" 105 lobe center), ceramic lifters, GB 160000psi pr, jpm 1.55:1 rockers two stud, ti valves, jpm alumec retainers, OTEVA75 valve springs and single grove 7deg keepers.

Alu push rods will soon be installed.

/Johannes

Please post the dyno results after you change the pushrods. Very impressive work!

[Johannes Persson]

JS,

The engine is for a customer in England and is delivered.
The alu push rods was not done when we started the dyno tests but has been tested before with small performance improvements.

/Johannes

[BeetleBug]

Congrats to the owner and to the builder.

I heard Mr Takanobu Ito is on his way over to Sweden, will he get there before Bernd Pischetsrieder

[Peter Shattock]

127hp per litre! Easy to say but just think about it for a while, how do you achieve such a result with a normally aspirated, 2 valve per cylinder, flat tappet pushrod engine which was designed back in the dark ages! Compare these figures to other normally aspirated flat 4 engines that run on super unleaded fuel and you can begin to understand the scale of this achievement. The only motors that run close to these figures that I can find are Johannes’s old 1603 mouse motor and his 1915cc motor which was in his blue car.

We are undoubtedly all very lucky to have Johannes in the AC VW world moving the game on, and sharing his knowledge with us and developing products for us to use. But for me best of all is that he is a really nice guy, and is very humble and almost embarrassed by his achievements, and would certainly never boast about any of his work. But perhaps this is the way of people who really are right out there, and know exactly what they are doing.

The truth is, he really does operate at the “next level”, and the proof, if there is any doubt, is right here on this thread.

The really interesting thing is that I’m sure this is not the end of the road for JPM and Johannes, as there will be more developments, and more figures which us mere mortals struggle to comprehend, it’s just be a matter of time!

Hat’s off, as it’s another amazing result!

Peter

[Lee.C]

127hp per litre! Easy to say but just think about it for a while, how do you achieve such a result with a normally aspirated, 2 valve per cylinder, flat tappet pushrod engine which was designed back in the dark ages! Compare these figures to other normally aspirated flat 4 engines that run on super unleaded fuel and you can begin to understand the scale of this achievement. The only motors that run close to these figures that I can find are Johannes’s old 1603 mouse motor and his 1915cc motor which was in his blue car.

We are undoubtedly all very lucky to have Johannes in the AC VW world moving the game on, and sharing his knowledge with us and developing products for us to use. But for me best of all is that he is a really nice guy, and is very humble and almost embarrassed by his achievements, and would certainly never boast about any of his work. But perhaps this is the way of people who really are right out there, and know exactly what they are doing.

The truth is, he really does operate at the “next level”, and the proof, if there is any doubt, is right here on this thread.

The really interesting thing is that I’m sure this is not the end of the road for JPM and Johannes, as there will be more developments, and more figures which us mere mortals struggle to comprehend, it’s just be a matter of time!

Hat’s off, as it’s another amazing result!

Peter

I know exactly what you mean dude - I have been thinking and re-reading this thread since the post from JPM, Its just AMAZING!!!!!!! 

[1946vw]

The best G/D  motor makes 275hp + or - and is a 120 cid or 2000cc. 137.5 hp per liter. My best made 220hp at 1680cc or 130hp per liter. Thanks Brian

[BeetleBug]

The best G/D  motor makes 275hp + or - and is a 120 cid or 2000cc. 137.5 hp per liter. My best made 220hp at 1680cc or 130hp per liter. Thanks Brian

I just loooove people that throw out A and not B.

Looking at the pictures you have posted earlier I would guess that your engines use overhead cams and twice the amount of valves?

 

[1946vw]

69 x 88 steve tims heads 42 x 37.5 it was in Hot vws a few years ago. Brian

[TexasTom]

Johannes,

What was the static compression ratio on this motor?
Amazing results, Congratulations!

Tom

[Johannes Persson]

Tom,
The comp ratio is 12.8:1.Dynoed on pump gas with muffler.

Regards
Johannes

[bang]

why not build a mouse engine ms230 heads fit on?
but nice numbers

[Roman]

I just loooove people that throw out A and not B.
Looking at the pictures you have posted earlier I would guess that your engines use overhead cams and twice the amount of valves?

Hi,
It is like comparing apples and oranges, but Brians 220 hp engine is not a OHC. The pictures were on his new engine, not the 220 hp one. I know some of the details of the 220 hp as I was offered to buy the old one a year ago. A lot of nice stuff like titanium rods, roller cam etc, in other words: A pure race engine.
The big difference is that JPM's engines makes about the same power/liter at lower rpm's with less extreme parts and on pump gas.

//Roman

[BeetleBug]

Thanks for filling in Roman.

I just loooove people that throw out A and not B.
Looking at the pictures you have posted earlier I would guess that your engines use overhead cams and twice the amount of valves?

Hi,
It is like comparing apples and oranges, but Brians 220 hp engine is not a OHC. The pictures were on his new engine, not the 220 hp one. I know some of the details of the 220 hp as I was offered to buy the old one a year ago. A lot of nice stuff like titanium rods, roller cam etc, in other words: A pure race engine.
The big difference is that JPM's engines makes about the same power/liter at lower rpm's with less extreme parts and on pump gas.

//Roman

[Johannes Persson]

Hello Bang,

The customer did only want to use VW castings.

My own 1915 producing 242hp/8600rpm has MS230, it will be updated with my new valve train and EFI for this season.

I have another "Mouse motor"(1735cc) going on for my self that will be designed for peak power at 10500rpm, it will also have my MS230.

Where do you guys put the cc limit for a "Mouse Motor"?

/Johannes

[bang]

ahh okay.

by the way. sent you a mail.

[Lee.C]

Hello Bang,

The customer did only want to use VW castings.

My own 1915 producing 242hp/8600rpm has MS230, it will be updated with my new valve train and EFI for this season.

I have another "Mouse motor"(1735cc) going on for my self that will be designed for peak power at 10500rpm, it will also have my MS230.

Where do you guys put the cc limit for a "Mouse Motor"?

/Johannes

Those are some serious numbers dude 

And I would say "mouse motors"  would be Sub 2 ltr  (2000cc)

Its really funny when I start talking with my "watercooled" friends they are just in SHOCK when I start showing them this thread 

"what! all that power from an 1600, 8 valve!!!?" or  "and Naturally aspirated WTF!!!!"

[A-C]

Where do you guys put the cc limit for a "Mouse Motor"?

/Johannes

Under the 2,5l is a mouse motor!!! 

[Trond Dahl]

You guys are talking about rat size engines, not mouse engines...
anything below 1776 is small enough to be a mouse :-D

[Lee.C]

You guys are talking about rat size engines, not mouse engines...
anything below 1776 is small enough to be a mouse :-D

Yeah your probably right dude 

[andy M.]

anything with a stock stroke crank is a mouse

strokers are for strokers!