Small powerhouses and old school

[Neil Davies]

48's are never too much!

Seriously, I'm guessing that they're choked down quite a bit, but this is obviously no ordinary 1600!

[Jon]

Small engines need "big" carbs to breath efficiently when you want the higher revs, more so than lager engines.

This is just something I have heard and seen, but can anyone explain why? 

[airstuff]

where can I get those JE pistons,I need 88mm ones.

[Rune]

Drop Johannes a line, he can hook you up with the pistons you need..

[kormi]

Nice work Johannes! Looking forward to see the dyno-pull 

[Udo]

where can I get those JE pistons,I need 88mm ones.

I still have some 88,5 pistons for sale . They where made by Wahl , a company that makes racing pistond for mahle . Very strong and lightweight . Their are only a view miles on them . Kompression height is the same as the 90,5 x 82

Udo

[Billyisgr8]

This is awsome, great job I am a fan of a mouse motor and will follow this closely, I would have really loved to have seen you do this with a singleport.  I see you are using non counterweighted crankshaft.  How balanced were you able to get the crankshaft down too without the counterweights?

Here is something for you singleport fans.

Kevin





 

[cbigpwr]

tell me about this for small powerhouse! 101cu.in.

  Hello all, I'm Anthony and I work @ Heads Up Performance. I've been working with Taylor for "way too long" on this small motor project. The object was to try to run a bug competively in NHRA SS/CC again. Well, they moved the class to Modified Stock and renamed it SS/FS. Same weight break and rules, so we didn't get too bummed. Taylor is using a 1967 sedan, so it will have the Klingamann, Mike Smith look, my all time favorite drag cars.
  The motor is going to be a 94x60, Aluminium rods, roller cam, custom everything 101 inch. The heads are "highly modified" 044 castings with Heads Up/ Componant Development 1.8:1 rockers. I don't even want to think how much time I have in these little babies. They just hit the bench the other day, 250 CFM @.700 @ 25" on our Super Flow 600 bench. The valve are 45x36 with really small chambers. Getting compression is really hard on this motor.
  We are going to fire the motor up on 48 idf carbs first, and maybe run it down the track, but then switch to fuel injection after. I can't wait to finish this motor. I've been thinking about this kind of combo for aboiut 10 years, then Taylor came along. He had the same kind of ideas and want to run in NHRA again, so we kind of pooled our thoughts and hopefully the thing runs good enough to make a good showing for VW's in the door car catagories again.
  More to come later...

                                                        Anthony Chicca    Heads Up Performance

[Tom G.]

"It's alive!!! Moahahahahaaa

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VPVqYRrQBA0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/VPVqYRrQBA0</a>

Oh what a great result...i still know what my next project is:-)) it sounds like a high rev. motorcycle engine....if i see these low weights of flywheel and pistons.. wow..i am speechless..

Regards
Tom

[Johannes Persson]

Hi Torben,

Sorry I missed your question.

The I/E ratio is about 78%, if you go back in the thread you will find the flow numbers from 2-16mm lift.

Best regards
Johannes

[Frallan]

Hello everyone,

I posted this on a thread at STF.
I think Johannes is timid......look what he already did with his 1915 cc. Never did he mention this yet, so I do. It is on the JPM website under movies.
Listen to it and believe him, it runs and stays together. It is used on the street too.

Frallan

http://www.jpmotorsport.se/

1915 cc close to 250 hp at 9500 rpm.
4 Mikuni carburators.
Soon Motec FI and more HP, if I am to believe him.
Just listen to it and anyone who has riden this car ( I havent) says that the car is streetable and has lowdown torque. I dont get it but why not?

[Zach Gomulka]

How balanced were you able to get the crankshaft down too without the counterweights?

You can balance a crank with or without counterweights. Think about it... when counterweights are added, there is 2 put on each "side" of the crank...

[cameron shorey]

tell me about this for small powerhouse! 101cu.in.

  Hello all, I'm Anthony and I work @ Heads Up Performance. I've been working with Taylor for "way too long" on this small motor project. The object was to try to run a bug competively in NHRA SS/CC again. Well, they moved the class to Modified Stock and renamed it SS/FS. Same weight break and rules, so we didn't get too bummed. Taylor is using a 1967 sedan, so it will have the Klingamann, Mike Smith look, my all time favorite drag cars.
  The motor is going to be a 94x60, Aluminium rods, roller cam, custom everything 101 inch. The heads are "highly modified" 044 castings with Heads Up/ Componant Development 1.8:1 rockers. I don't even want to think how much time I have in these little babies. They just hit the bench the other day, 250 CFM @.700 @ 25" on our Super Flow 600 bench. The valve are 45x36 with really small chambers. Getting compression is really hard on this motor.
  We are going to fire the motor up on 48 idf carbs first, and maybe run it down the track, but then switch to fuel injection after. I can't wait to finish this motor. I've been thinking about this kind of combo for aboiut 10 years, then Taylor came along. He had the same kind of ideas and want to run in NHRA again, so we kind of pooled our thoughts and hopefully the thing runs good enough to make a good showing for VW's in the door car catagories again.
  More to come later...

                                                        Anthony Chicca    Heads Up Performance

Hi Anthony,
I'm curious. What is the reason for the 1" x 1" bar welded along the bottom of that head? And what are going to do for valve covers? 
I like the idea of going to 48 IDF footprint EFI. Much more compact.

[Billyisgr8]

How balanced were you able to get the crankshaft down too without the counterweights?

You can balance a crank with or without counterweights. Think about it... when counterweights are added, there is 2 put on each "side" of the crank...

Can you get the same tolorance in grams with or without counterweights, or can you balance to a smaller gram with counterweights,  is maybe the way I should have worded the question.


Kevin

[Johannes Persson]

Hello Frallan,

Thank you for your nice words.
The dynopull on my homepage made to 9500rpm is the first version of my 1915 project.
It produced 224hp/8400rpm, today the same engine with some more R&D to it produce 246hp/8900rpm
and keeps good power till 9500rpm.It will be equipped with Motec and my F1 roller throttle bodies for this season, I hope.

Sorry for taking a side step.

Regards
Johannes

[Bruce]

How balanced were you able to get the crankshaft down too without the counterweights?

You can balance a crank with or without counterweights. Think about it... when counterweights are added, there is 2 put on each "side" of the crank...

Can you get the same tolorance in grams with or without counterweights, or can you balance to a smaller gram with counterweights,  is maybe the way I should have worded the question.

Any VW crank can be balanced to 0.0000000g of imbalance.  The size of the counterweight has nothing to do with the balancing job.  The counterweight helps prevents flexing of the crank.  The ideal counterweight for a VW crank is much heavier than is physically possible.  In other words, they are never big enough.

[Fast Bug]

Any VW crank can be balanced to 0.0000000g of imbalance.  The size of the counterweight has nothing to do with the balancing job.  The counterweight helps prevents flexing of the crank.  The ideal counterweight for a VW crank is much heavier than is physically possible.  In other words, they are never big enough.

That's true, I couldn't have said it better

[cbigpwr]

tell me about this for small powerhouse! 101cu.in.

  Hello all, I'm Anthony and I work @ Heads Up Performance. I've been working with Taylor for "way too long" on this small motor project. The object was to try to run a bug competively in NHRA SS/CC again. Well, they moved the class to Modified Stock and renamed it SS/FS. Same weight break and rules, so we didn't get too bummed. Taylor is using a 1967 sedan, so it will have the Klingamann, Mike Smith look, my all time favorite drag cars.
  The motor is going to be a 94x60, Aluminium rods, roller cam, custom everything 101 inch. The heads are "highly modified" 044 castings with Heads Up/ Componant Development 1.8:1 rockers. I don't even want to think how much time I have in these little babies. They just hit the bench the other day, 250 CFM @.700 @ 25" on our Super Flow 600 bench. The valve are 45x36 with really small chambers. Getting compression is really hard on this motor.
  We are going to fire the motor up on 48 idf carbs first, and maybe run it down the track, but then switch to fuel injection after. I can't wait to finish this motor. I've been thinking about this kind of combo for aboiut 10 years, then Taylor came along. He had the same kind of ideas and want to run in NHRA again, so we kind of pooled our thoughts and hopefully the thing runs good enough to make a good showing for VW's in the door car catagories again.
  More to come later...

                                                        Anthony Chicca    Heads Up Performance

Hi Anthony,
I'm curious. What is the reason for the 1" x 1" bar welded along the bottom of that head? And what are going to do for valve covers? 
I like the idea of going to 48 IDF footprint EFI. Much more compact.

That is the unfinished valve cover rail. It will be profiled later. We will be running either the Autocraft cast valve covers, or a light-weight sheet metal version. Haven't decided yet. The IDF carb is the "Bastard Child" of the Weber line-up. Properly modified they can flow MORE than a 48 IDA. The only way an IDA can beat it is by boring it bigger. But even an IDF can be bored to 50mm. The manifold package of the IDF is also superior to the IDA. It has a straighter shot. No bends equal more flow. Plus the IDF has a better idle circut. To Many pluses for the IDF, I wish they still made them. With that said, I think the injection will still run better than the IDF. More power under the curve=better E.T.s  Hopefully!

                                                                                  Anthony Chicca    Heads Up Performance

[Udo]

Are these the new style Autocraft rockers ?

Udo

[richie]

Are these the new style Autocraft rockers ?

Udo

Udo,it meantions in the first post by Anthony they are component devolopement 1.8/1 rockers

cheers  richie

[Udo]

Hi Richie

Autocraft has 1.8 i think 

Udo

[cbigpwr]

Hi Richie

Autocraft has 1.8 i think 

Udo

Same rockers. They are Componant Development rockers. They are the company that makes the heads and rockers. Roger @ Heads Up and Mike @ Autocraft are parteners on the progect (put the money up for the project). Both Heads Up and Autocraft sell the same parts. We have heads, rockers (1.55, 1.7, and 1. valve covers. Manifolds are coming soon.

These rockers change the geometry of the pushrod in relation to the lifter. The pushrod and the lifter are now straight in-line. I don't think this motor (Taylors 1600) would be so sucessful if it wasn't for these rockers. As you cut the lenghth of the motor down (bring the head closer to the case) this angle on the pushrod gets more extreme.

                                                                                     Anthony  Heads Up Performance

[Casey]

Sshhhheeeessshhhhh Anthony, I never saw those babies over there! How long do build a duplicate set? 1 week? Come on I know you can pull it off! This will be the second time.  . You da man! I'm VERY close by the way. Going in on Fri. Later Casey.

[Project_X]

That motor is awesome.When I first got my bug I was asking about possibilities of building a 1600cc in stock bore/stroke form but I was told it would be a waste of time,build a stroker or go home...
I love the fact these motors can rev high.I like that part, but how reliable are they with the new technology?I read this whole thread, and seen that back then they grenaded after a certain amount of time but was that with just strictly racing them?If I was to build or attempt to build one, it would be a daily driver for me so would that be bad or good?I like the idea of a high strung 1600cc with 10:1 cr, capable of reving to at least 7k.Id be happy if it made 110-130hp , after all these are small mouse motors.Would they be as quick as the strokers being they have less torque?Sorry about all the questions I'm just really curious about thinking outside the box since I dont get along well inside the box...

[Project_X]

Can you guys tell me what its costing you guys to build a mouse motor?I'd be happy with around 110-120hp out a 1600,1641,1679.High revs sound cool to me..LOL

[Udo]

Can you guys tell me what its costing you guys to build a mouse motor?I'd be happy with around 110-120hp out a 1600,1641,1679.High revs sound cool to me..LOL

An engine like this would be not so expensive . 110-120 hp is easy to get . Depends on what new parts you want , case , heads ..

Udo

[Project_X]

Can you guys tell me what its costing you guys to build a mouse motor?I'd be happy with around 110-120hp out a 1600,1641,1679.High revs sound cool to me..LOL

An engine like this would be not so expensive . 110-120 hp is easy to get . Depends on what new parts you want , case , heads ..

Udo

I was told it would be a waste of time an money, is this true?Also I notice you guys use lightweight parts, Ive looked a few up like Jet rods,7lb flywheels, there really pricey.Can I get away with a 12lb flywheel,lightweight lifters, and whatever else I can get on a budget.

[Jon]

To get 120 horses you don't need a single lightweight part. You can get away with stock rods and a Mahle 94mm cylinder kit. What you do need is a pair of nice heads in combination with a good cam. 

I forgot to mention that I was talking about a 1915, or a "non stroker"

[Udo]

To get 120 horses you don't need a single lightweight part. You can get away with stock rods and a Mahle cylinder kit. What you do need is a pair of nice heads in combination with a good cam. 

That is all !! You are right Jon

Udo

[Project_X]

Yup Ive been told many times its all in the heads, but was just curious.Whats it costing on average to build these little mouse motors(ie 1600,1603,1641,1679,1699)?Trying my best to stay on topic (sorry, Im just amazed about these little mouse motors)but from what your saying I can build any of those sizes up to 110-120hp.Also Ive read posts before that these motors dont make enough power to move until after 4000rpms, I hope thats not true because I want one of these for a street motor.Thinking maybe 40IDF's,FK8 cam with 1.4:1 rockers, 1.5" merged header, 044 heads from CB Performance, and some type of ignition.