The Cal-look Lounge
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 29, 2020, 01:41:19 am

Login with username, password and session length
Thank you for your support!
Search:     Advanced search
345038 Posts in 27583 Topics by 6456 Members
Latest Member: Ada Peter
* Home This Year's European Top 20 lists All Time European Top 20 lists Search Login Register
+  The Cal-look Lounge
|-+  Cal-look/High Performance
| |-+  Cal-look
| | |-+  truss bar
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: truss bar  (Read 16877 times)
Diederick/DVK
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3693


They're never done till they're sold


WWW
« on: January 15, 2009, 19:53:22 pm »

i was wondering what the opinions are on the "truss bar"



i haven't seen that many around, or perhaps it's a new item. i guess a lot of europeans go for a csp cup strebe instead. but this item costs less and doesn't require any welding.

also, does it eliminate the need for a traction bar under the engine?
Logged

Diederick
 -
Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
marcd
Newbie
*
Posts: 31


« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2009, 21:58:46 pm »

I think a traction bar will always be needed on a hi-po VW. The fact that there is no factory mount supporting the motor near the oil pump has always bothered me.

With the way everything is mounted, it seems like the engine wants to pivot on the transmission/engine mount axis since there is nothing supporting the motor. Adding a truss bar would probably help to limit shock tower/frame horn deflection, but I can't see how it would help stabilize the engine.
Logged

I like to go fast.

Jim Ratto
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7114



« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 22:04:06 pm »

I wonder if a traction bar actually bolted to T2/T3 mount bosses on case would completely rid a car of wheel hop?
I know a normal traction bar, like Berg's stops downward travel, but under wheel hop, the motor is bouncing around like a BB in a coffee can. If the bar is tensioned "enough" I guess it would pre load the motor upwards enough, but what if the engine was located in the rear in all directions, by bolting the case directly to a tensioned bar? I suppose a guy could even fashion some type of rubber dampers to go between case and bar (10mm male thread to screw into case, then hard rubber spacer, then female 10 or even 12mm threads to bolt traction bar to). Danny Gabbard are you listening?

sorry to take this off the above topic.
Logged

DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
Zach Gomulka
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7003


Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.


« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2009, 22:41:25 pm »

The Bugpack truss bar is rubbish. As is their rear support bar.
Logged

Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
Harry/FDK
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3614


Every Rule Was Made To Break, Even Callook...


« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2009, 23:01:55 pm »

If you want to run a traction-bar only in Bittburg forget it. (Concrete! water-box). The Truss-bar is Match-Box stuff.
CSP is cool, but try the Franky's stuff........
Logged

Done ? Not Yet.
Jason Foster
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1256


7.69 87mph 12.35 106 mph


WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2009, 01:36:12 am »

I have a weld in setup fabbed by Mike at 407 speed shack ties frame horns to shock towers works Super. I'll try to get a pic up later.
Logged

STRENGTH THROUGH JOY...........

Der Kleiner Panzers
Sam K
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 738



« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2009, 05:37:52 am »

I put a csp bar setup in my bug a few years ago. It looked like a good a good idea but I didn't notice any difference. What I did notice was that when I went to take it off to replace the transmission after it had ben in the car for about a year, all the bars were completely seized solid where the length adjusted. I called them and they said that I should have used anti-seize when I assembled it. I told them that they should send instructions with thier stuff and should put that information in said instructions. They sold me replacement bars for a couple hundered bucks. Meh.
Logged
BeetleBug
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2835


Snabba grabben...


« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2009, 07:52:31 am »

The Bugpack truss bar is rubbish. As is their rear support bar.

Is it? Why?

I have installed it and must say I do not agree with you. The fit is near perfect and no cutting or welding is needed. It is rigid enough for 95% of us and it is cheap.

Logged

10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
Bewitched666
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 863


Bewitched


« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2009, 08:05:53 am »

Btw speaking of tensioning the tractionbar,how much do you tension it? Cool
Logged

Fast vw beetle's rule
Jon
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3207


12,3@174km/t at Gardermoen 2008


WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2009, 09:43:11 am »

It is rigid enough for 95% of us

How do you know? Have you tested it with more than 50 hp?
The design is flawed at best. Just a look-alike product in my opinion.
There is a reason bridges doesn't look like this:
Logged

Grumpy old men have signatures like this.
Trond Dahl
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1522



« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2009, 09:48:26 am »

It is rigid enough for 95% of us

How do you know? Have you tested it with more than 50 hp?
The design is flawed at best. Just a look-alike product in my opinion.
There is a reason bridges doesn't look like this:

Is that really a fair comparison?  Wink

Quote from: Zach Gomulka
The Bugpack truss bar is rubbish. As is their rear support bar.

To call it rubbish is a pretty strong opinion, I assume you have tested it?
I agree that the design is not as good as the CSP design (ref. JHUs drawing) but my opinion is that if it prevents wheel hop then im satisfied.
It doesnt need to hold a bridge in my car  Grin
Logged

Street car 10.67/206kmt@Kjula 2014
Race car 9.49/236kmt@SCC 2017

Tobi/DFL
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 442



« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2009, 09:55:37 am »

I think a traction bar will always be needed on a hi-po VW. The fact that there is no factory mount supporting the motor near the oil pump has always bothered me.

I don´t agrre, Marc!
There´s a healthy 2176cc engine in my car (best ET 12.9) and I don´t have any wheel hop although there is no traction bar mounted. Instead I´m using a solid mounted gearbox (with solid intermediate mount) and a set of torque bars (comparable to those by CSP). When I used rubber gearbox mounts (new VW items) but torque bars and intermediate mount (with rubbers instead of pieces of aluminium)  it suffered very bad wheel hop.
Bye,

Tobi
Logged
nicolas
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3915



« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2009, 09:57:18 am »

i personnally think wheelhop is caused by other factors as well.

so i wont go into that discussion as i don't know enough about it.

all i want to say is that diederick could buy this one OR maybe see what is needed after the car has been taken down the strip a few times. i agree with the extra support that is needed. but if you need to stiffen up the whole car with a 1914cc engine... i am not sure.

anyway as for the type3 setup. it acts like a berg traction bar. it is mounted rigid on the case and fitted in rubber mounts on the car. basically it was used in type3's that don't have framehorns and IRS suspension. it could make a nice addition, but like Jason said it wont really solve the problem off the engine rotating into the gearbox. then you have to go solid alltogether.

and i think that a good set off shocks, and a good tirepressure could avoid a good deal off wheelhop.
Logged
BeetleBug
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2835


Snabba grabben...


« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2009, 10:00:54 am »

"Just a look-alike product in my opinion."

A look-a-like of what?


Logged

10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
Jon
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3207


12,3@174km/t at Gardermoen 2008


WWW
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2009, 10:08:20 am »

Logged

Grumpy old men have signatures like this.
BeetleBug
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2835


Snabba grabben...


« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2009, 10:26:12 am »

I do not agree.. but time will show.

I`m not a brigde builder and certainly not a tech painter but I do recall seeing bridges similar to this;
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 10:28:37 am by BeetleBug » Logged

10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
Trond Dahl
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1522



« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2009, 10:35:22 am »

Both of you should do a file - exit on ms paint and get back to work  Cool
Logged

Street car 10.67/206kmt@Kjula 2014
Race car 9.49/236kmt@SCC 2017

Jon
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3207


12,3@174km/t at Gardermoen 2008


WWW
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2009, 10:46:09 am »

I do not agree.. but time will show.

I`m not a brigde builder and certainly not a tech painter but I do recall seeing bridges similar to this;

That's funny BB! Grin
Logged

Grumpy old men have signatures like this.
Diederick/DVK
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3693


They're never done till they're sold


WWW
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2009, 10:58:53 am »

though i used the bugpack picture, i was actually looking at this 1" 4130 chromoly made in USA truss bar.



it's a 1/4" thicker than the bugpack item. according to the vw shop it will eliminate the need for a traction bar. but they couldn't tell me if it will interfere with the z-bar.

p.s. how about this for a bridge  Tongue

Logged

Diederick
 -
Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
nicolas
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3915



« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2009, 11:03:04 am »

no that is a dutch bridge... wouldn't last.

 Grin

Logged
BeetleBug
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2835


Snabba grabben...


« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2009, 11:08:17 am »

though i used the bugpack picture, i was actually looking at this 1" 4130 chromoly made in USA truss bar.




Now that is a look-a-like!

 Smiley
Logged

10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
Trond Dahl
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1522



« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2009, 12:35:59 pm »

though i used the bugpack picture, i was actually looking at this 1" 4130 chromoly made in USA truss bar.




Now that is a look-a-like!

 Smiley

At least its black.... I should paint mine...
Logged

Street car 10.67/206kmt@Kjula 2014
Race car 9.49/236kmt@SCC 2017

Zach Gomulka
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7003


Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.


« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2009, 19:06:34 pm »

The Bugpack truss bar is rubbish. As is their rear support bar.

Is it? Why?

I have installed it and must say I do not agree with you. The fit is near perfect and no cutting or welding is needed. It is rigid enough for 95% of us and it is cheap.

Your luck must be better than mine. I fitted one to my dads car and it took all sorts of modifying to make it work. I wasn't impressed.

I had the rear support bar on my '67 years ago. They made the square tubing too thin, it would bow under the engine! I got into the habit of flopping it over about every 2 weeks or so Roll Eyes
Logged

Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
JS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1628



« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2009, 20:17:59 pm »

Their rear support bar is indeed crap! On the bright side it's at least chromed...  Roll Eyes
Logged

Signature.
Lee.C
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6460


I might be an Idiot but I'm not an Arsehole!


« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2009, 21:41:19 pm »

Their rear support bar is indeed crap! On the bright side it's at least chromed...  Roll Eyes

Dam right! I have a few cool ideas for mine though  Wink Also is it just me or does the use of "Hemi-joints" in these so called truss bars inherantly allow FLEX/TWIST thus defeating the point of them  Undecided Smiley
Logged

You either "Get It" or you don't......
lowfastbus
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 752


WUNDERWAFFE


WWW
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2009, 21:45:14 pm »

I was thinking of making some for my car, do they need to be adjustable??
Was thinking about just making bars and welding them to the frame horns and the shock mounts.

Jelle
Logged

http://dragvws.skynetblogs.be
WUNDERWAFFE
The Knuckle Buster
j-f
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1571


Jean-François


WWW
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2009, 22:20:01 pm »

I was thinking of making some for my car, do they need to be adjustable??
Was thinking about just making bars and welding them to the frame horns and the shock mounts.

Jelle

I think it has to be adjustable to be tension on the car.

I only have a 1835cc in my bug, but with urethane mounts on the back, a heavy duty oem vw front mount and a Joel Mhor support on the gearbox nose, I never have wheel hop.
But what do you think is the cause of wheel hop?

Do you think that strengthening piece welded on the chassis as this one are useful? 
Logged
Fastbrit
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4665


Keep smiling...


« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2009, 11:54:17 am »

I was thinking of making some for my car, do they need to be adjustable??
Was thinking about just making bars and welding them to the frame horns and the shock mounts.

Jelle

I think it has to be adjustable to be tension on the car.

I only have a 1835cc in my bug, but with urethane mounts on the back, a heavy duty oem vw front mount and a Joel Mhor support on the gearbox nose, I never have wheel hop.
But what do you think is the cause of wheel hop?

Do you think that strengthening piece welded on the chassis as this one are useful? 
Don't forget - that picture is of the underneath of a chassis which has had the torsion housing raised. You can't add bracing like that to a stock chassis.
Logged

Der Kleiner Panzers VW Club    
So it took some guy 17 years to run 0.31secs quicker and he boasts about it? A case of All Talk and...
j-f
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1571


Jean-François


WWW
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2009, 19:06:24 pm »

I was thinking of making some for my car, do they need to be adjustable??
Was thinking about just making bars and welding them to the frame horns and the shock mounts.

Jelle

I think it has to be adjustable to be tension on the car.

I only have a 1835cc in my bug, but with urethane mounts on the back, a heavy duty oem vw front mount and a Joel Mhor support on the gearbox nose, I never have wheel hop.
But what do you think is the cause of wheel hop?

Do you think that strengthening piece welded on the chassis as this one are useful? 
Don't forget - that picture is of the underneath of a chassis which has had the torsion housing raised. You can't add bracing like that to a stock chassis.

Ha ok! That's what I didn't understand. Thank Keith.  Wink
Logged
Bruce
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1390


« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2009, 21:42:12 pm »

, do they need to be adjustable??
They don't need to be adjustable, just rigid.  Adjustability just makes installation easy in every car.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!