57 Oval

[Rob DVKK]

Hi Peter,

Damn that is nice! And you are doing that with a stock tranny, or is it a stonger gearbox, but with the standard ratio gears?? If it is a standard box, no fear of breaking it doing this?? Which shocks do you run up front?

I wanted to keep an original gearbox as well (at first anyway), but I as thinking of converting to IRS for several reasons:
-  I have a good 1303S geabox laying here, no decent SA gearbox (so nice highway cruising)
-  Handling due to IRS set-up
-  Easy to change gearboxes in case you break it (really important!), you do not need to touch the brakes while changing the box
-  Since I plan on driving it regularly on the streets and I want to run FUCHS wheels (4,5 and 6), the obvious choice for disks are Porsche 944 disks (super easy with these a-arms and cheap cmpared to other diskbrake converions)

I know, maybe not 100% in line with the cal-look theme, but I consider these important safety upgrades.... But I just need to check if the 6"FUCHS with 205 tyres will still fit the original fender with this IRS set-up...

The tranny is originally a single side cover IRS model that I  used to run when I had converted the car to IRS. We took the gear carrier that was in that tranny and then put it in a dual cover IRS case and added the swing super diff (4.12 R&P). Right now I'm using stock axels and a poor mans posi. After seeing the wheels get off the ground I will be changing out the axels this winter to a piar of sway-a-ways. For mounts I use a mohr mid mount and my home built (Berg like) traction bar.

The Suspension on this car has always worked well at the track. I run old oil filled (cofap) shock inthe front and rear with bus snubbers in the back. The weight transfer has always been good, it just took putting a pair of slicks on to get the bite (the radials would just spin off the line)

The only change I have noticed from going IRS to swing is that corners have to be taken slower, but When I switched I also changed the front tires from 185-55-15 to 135's - so there is a pronounced understeer in corners. Although the car isn't set up to go around corners anymore the look is more than worth it.

[peter - belgium]

The look is definately more then worth it! Your oval is looking hard!!

This is the same look as I'm after, but I will try it with the IRS rear end + P944 disks and 6" FUCHS/295 tyres.
As for the fronts I will use my 4,5"FUCHS + P944disks and with 145tyres on a 4" PBW narrowed beam.

My wheels are off to my polisher (aka fellow club member Philip Dr. Detail - http://flatline-lowriders.skynetblogs.be ), I can not wait to get thel back fully polisihed and detailed!!
As you can see... he is really looking forward polishing the 5 wheels



But I'm still a bit doubtfull about my rear wheels. I have a set of 6" wheels and a set of 5,5" wheels. Which would you guys use (I have 205 tyres for these wheels)

[Rob DVKK]

Thanks Peter,

Not sure about the back spacing on the Fuchs and how it is affected by the 944 disks, but Bruce in our club has run 225 - 60 - 16's on the back of his beetle (Not sure on the width, but they are Fuchs). They fit real nice. He narrows the rear trailing arms by moving the bearing carrier inwards (About an inch I think) and then uses type 3 automatic IRS axels.

Are you going to run larger CV's. When I was running IRS I used thing drive flanges and 924 stub axels. This way I could run T2 CV's that we profiles the cages in. Never broke one - when friends were snapping T1 CV's at the track.

[peter - belgium]

Thanks Peter,

Not sure about the back spacing on the Fuchs and how it is affected by the 944 disks, but Bruce in our club has run 225 - 60 - 16's on the back of his beetle (Not sure on the width, but they are Fuchs). They fit real nice. He narrows the rear trailing arms by moving the bearing carrier inwards (About an inch I think) and then uses type 3 automatic IRS axels.

Are you going to run larger CV's. When I was running IRS I used thing drive flanges and 924 stub axels. This way I could run T2 CV's that we profiles the cages in. Never broke one - when friends were snapping T1 CV's at the track.

I also think I will have to narrow the trailing arms one way are the other... Do you happen to have some pics of his narrowing conversion? I saw these once on the germanlook froum I think, but I lost the link...
Are the T3 automatic IRS axles shorter then the normal IRS ones? That is nice to know:-)

I was indeed planning on using the larger P944CV's. These should be the same size as the T2ones, but I still need to confirm this...

What do you mean with:  "we profiles the cages in". that I do not understand??

See YA

[Rob DVKK]

Hi Peter - one side is. I think it is the right one. As for profiling the cages - it is when you take the CV apart and pretty much blueprint and make sure there are no stress points in the CV (not really neccessary though).

I pretty sure that Bruce had an article in Hot Vw's back inthe 90's about how to narrow the trailing arms.

I'll ask him if he remembers which one.

[Rob DVKK]

Hi Peter,

It was June of 94 Hot VW's - Bruce had an article on how to narrow the trailing arms and what is required for fitting them.

hope this helps.

[peter - belgium]

Hi Peter,

It was June of 94 Hot VW's - Bruce had an article on how to narrow the trailing arms and what is required for fitting them.

hope this helps.

Thanks! Now on to the search for the June 94 HVW's issue
Anyone who can help me get a copy/scan/picture/... of this narrowing article?

See YA!

[peter - belgium]

Lots have happened since the last update on the oval (being a complete 64 double cab resto...) but last weekend I weldedn in the IRS mounts in my chassis


Positioning


Welded!


Both sides done:-)

[peter - belgium]

Modified the rear gearbox horns for the CV joints. I want to run the bigger Porsche 944 units here as well...

Before


After

[peter - belgium]

And the intermediate Gearbox support

The base, lasercut in 8mm steel


Bottom bracket welded

[peter - belgium]

As I said before... I want to build a true callooker oval beetle, but with some German look chassis inspiration to make it really streetable!! Therefore I would like to install these 944 parts on my oval beetle, but there are a few issues that needs to be dealt with:

The Porsche 944 springplate are an adjustable type, so finetuning the height is possible, but this needs trimming (I assume best would be on the chassis itself)


The exentric bolts which makes the height-adjusting possible


But the back of these bolts sits behind the rubber carrier... trimming is needed there as well


And I would like to install this rear tracktion bar as well, but then the beetles frame horns are in the way... mayne if I position this tracktion bar a bit farther from the torsion tube then the original Porsche position?


If there is anyone that has done this and can give me some advise... let me know!

[levis]

here's how we did it. just welded the brackets on the chassis.

[peter - belgium]

Thanks! That is indeed a nice solution as well:-)

What are the other specs of your chassiswork, planned engine, brakes, … ? Which year of chassis?

* What I can see it that you also have the adjustable springplates… Porsche 944 as well?? By the way… how do you take them apart? If you remove the 2 bolts, can you separate these easily then?
What did you do as clearancing / making the back of the bolts accessible for adjusting?

* And what did you use as the rubber carrier?? The modified Porsche unit or a custom made unit with bearings or rubbers?
The rubbers on these seems to be attached… did you got it off and replaced? Can it be replaced with standard beetle items?

* I see you have the Franky’s VW service gearbox cradle as well. I bought one at the KWF last weekend as well… should be nice when I start to make the rear brace. Did you make/buy one as well?


It would be great to see some more pics as well, so keep them coming! Any info is greatly appreciated!!

Peter

[levis]

Thanks! That is indeed a nice solution as well:-)

What are the other specs of your chassiswork, planned engine, brakes, … ? Which year of chassis?

* What I can see it that you also have the adjustable springplates… Porsche 944 as well?? By the way… how do you take them apart? If you remove the 2 bolts, can you separate these easily then?
What did you do as clearancing / making the back of the bolts accessible for adjusting?

* And what did you use as the rubber carrier?? The modified Porsche unit or a custom made unit with bearings or rubbers?
The rubbers on these seems to be attached… did you got it off and replaced? Can it be replaced with standard beetle items?

* I see you have the Franky’s VW service gearbox cradle as well. I bought one at the KWF last weekend as well… should be nice when I start to make the rear brace. Did you make/buy one as well?


It would be great to see some more pics as well, so keep them coming! Any info is greatly appreciated!!

Peter

This is my brothers project. it's going to be a german style beetle. it's a 1972 bug with 944 brakes in the front and 944 suspension and brakes in the rear.

we didn't separate  the springplates, but they are adjustable by turning the the exentric bolts.

we used the same rubbers that where on the springplates, we didn't removed them. if the rubbers are good, just leave them. these rubbers are from a good quality. the rubber carrier is from a porsche 924 en we modified them. if you already got these carriers, try to modify them. they are low in weight and very strong.

what do you mean with rear brace?

[Ivan]

Looking good Peter! Good luck with the rest of the project. If you need any help, you know where I am!
Hope to see you soon, maybe March at Ninove.
Ivan

[peter - belgium]

So we have the same goal with the chassis (road-handling and reliability), the big difference will be the body on top of the chassis.

I still have the original 944 Alu rubber carriers and I was planning on getting them modified as well by cutting off all excess parts and polish/paint them afterwards:-)

Did you had clearance issues due to the back of the excentric and fixation bolt touching the chassis leg?? First I will have to clearance the front of the spring plate a bit so I can position the springplate further inwards the torsion tube housing (see pic above of clearance issue) and check where it really touches… Did you use any spacers around this area?

What are you guys using as drive flanges? I was thinking of using the 181 gearbox flanges and the Porsche 944 axles together with the Porsche drive shafts (may even narrowing the rear track with 25mm per side to get to the original oval beetles rear track)

With the rear brace I mean this

I was thinking of making one myself… CSP has one (300 euro), Frankys VW Service as well (200 euro), …

This I already made to tie in the gearbox:

[peter - belgium]

Looking good Peter! Good luck with the rest of the project. If you need any help, you know where I am!
Hope to see you soon, maybe March at Ninove.
Ivan

Hey Ivan,

For sure I will see you again at Ninove… I hope to be there with my new (but still not 100% defined – so anything can still happen) project, if not it will be with the trusty old SLAMBULANCE !

See YA then!

Peter

[levis]

So we have the same goal with the chassis (road-handling and reliability), the big difference will be the body on top of the chassis.

I still have the original 944 Alu rubber carriers and I was planning on getting them modified as well by cutting off all excess parts and polish/paint them afterwards:-)

Did you had clearance issues due to the back of the excentric and fixation bolt touching the chassis leg?? First I will have to clearance the front of the spring plate a bit
so I can position the springplate further inwards the torsion tube housing (see pic above of clearance issue) and check where it really touches… Did you use any spacers around this area?

You mean this pic.



we had no trouble with it. there is enough clearence.

What are you guys using as drive flanges? I was thinking of using the 181 gearbox flanges and the Porsche 944 axles together with the Porsche drive shafts (may even narrowing the rear track with 25mm per side to get to the original oval beetles rear track)

it is a gearbox of a 1303. he used these flanges but replaced the axles for a longer type of a type 3. because we have porsche 944 alu axles, the car is getting wider in the back.

With the rear brace I mean this

I was thinking of making one myself… CSP has one (300 euro), Frankys VW Service as well (200 euro), …

My brother got his rear brace/cup-strebe from Ebay.de. i already searched for some items, but there's nothing on ebay at the moment.
just take a look after a while. my brother got the cup-strebe for (i guess) 100 euro, and it is a good quality product.

if you have a rear brace. mount it with the engine en the exhaust on it. it is a tight fit!!

This I already made to tie in the gearbox:

here's another pic of the chassis, still needs some work