How much money to run 10s in a street car?now with part2, The evolution to turbo

[Red Rooster]

Yeah they will be ti with beryllium copper seats.

The valves will be machine down to suit my needs. Possibly 7mm stems as they are more readily available but I want to keep as much reliability as possible and there are still quite a lot of 5/16" valves out there.

I will update you on the cooling side of things when I know more but I think we are close to an optimum.

Out of curiosity does anyone know the thickness of the fins and the gap between them on the JPM heads? My heat guy thinks given the amount of fins if they are to the same depth as a VW style head they are on paper too deep to be at their optimum.

However from practice we all know they cool very well, as I say its more curiosity than anything else. as he said its not just surface area as the thickness and the length of the fins all determine their efficiency. that's before you get into materials and varying airflow etc.

Dave

[ibg]

Fins 2.4- 2.5 thick, 2.35 space, 10 fins.

[Red Rooster]

Thanks for that.

Given we are working with the stock comp elim fins which are approx 6mm wide we where looking at about 2mm fins with a 2mm gap by about 3/4 depth of the main air passages.

Its not quite optimum as the gap should be wider but I don't want to compromise the strength of the fins too much.

Its still going to increase the surface area significantly even if we leave the outer two fins alone!

Cheers

David

[Russell]

Answer: Not as much as a 8........ LOL

Well done again.

Russell

[richie]

Thanks to Anthony[ No bars] for putting me in touch with someone selling some heads that met the specs I was looking for   I have now purchased them so another piece of the puzzle is found, I nearly have everything for the engine now so when I get some time I will do the mockup and see how it all goes together.

cheers Richie

[NoBars]

Got to help 2 people!

[richie]

Well with another winter here and no racing to occupy me I have returned to this car/plans. I have bought some parts over the the last few months for this and am actually quite near have everything to create a running driving car.

I got a good deal on a pair of heads, manifolds[ida pattern] and CB ratio rockers so these are what I will use.

The engine spec is complete[ well in my head anyway ]
2276
Mag case, usual mods
DPR welded crank with matching flywheel
Scat rods
Wiseco pistons
AA cylinders
CB comp eliminator heads & match ported iDA pattern manifolds
CB 1.4 ratio rockers
Engle cam, Scat lifters
Scat sump
Stock VW head studs, 8mm
WBX push rod tubes
Manton push rods[ I would really like to try ally push rods but they are to expensive to fit this criteria]
1 3/4 header

   

[Berger]

So now that you are that close to have a complete car, how about setting a time goal for this project? I think the ultimate test would be to drive it to SCC 2014, race it there and drive it back home 

(oh yes, I am trying to trick you to come to SCC next year also )

[richie]

So now that you are that close to have a complete car, how about setting a time goal for this project? I think the ultimate test would be to drive it to SCC 2014, race it there and drive it back home 

(oh yes, I am trying to trick you to come to SCC next year also )

I am hoping to run it next summer, but it wont be going up there when I have good track 2 1/2 hours away   I think driving it 2 1/2 hours each way and running 10s would be enough of an accomplishment for this year, at least here when it is raining at the track I can get a cup of tea

cheers Richie

[richie]

So having bought the 5x130 rear drums I needed some wheels to fit, there was only going to be one choice for me So I got these at sensible money, maybe not the cheapest option but a good compromise wheel for road and .

I also took a stock VW fan and tigged it up, I didn't use any welding rod so as to keep it as balanced as possible, as I will take the belt off at the track it is not so important

[richie]

this is the only pieces from the nitrous incarnation of the old cabrio I will be re using, a berg 1 3/4 header, and a nitrous bottle, the one on the right came with a cheap nitrous set I bought for this project

[fahrvergnugen]

Hi Richy,

Good to see you re starting this project again.
My floorpan is nearly finished and will be primed soon. When the car is finished I also will be using nitrous. Does the nitrous need any mods to the floorpan that I should do before I am priming it?

Cheers Paul.

[richie]

Hi Richy,

Good to see you re starting this project again.
My floorpan is nearly finished and will be primed soon. When the car is finished I also will be using nitrous. Does the nitrous need any mods to the floorpan that I should do before I am priming it?

Cheers Paul.
[/quote

Hi Paul

so you want to finish the pan and not change you mind and do it again?    I don't believe it

Where will you mount the bottle? then were will you run the main nitrous feed line to the solenoid? then if you have the bottle in the car with you it must have a vent tube to outside the cabin

cheers Richie

[tikimadness]

Hi Paul

so you want to finish the pan and not change you mind and do it again?    I don't believe it

Where will you mount the bottle? then were will you run the main nitrous feed line to the solenoid? then if you have the bottle in the car with you it must have a vent tube to outside the cabin

cheers Richie

woahahahahahaha ;-)

Michael

[Shane Noone]

Well with another winter here and no racing to occupy me I have returned to this car/plans. I have bought some parts over the the last few months for this and am actually quite near have everything to create a running driving car.

I got a good deal on a pair of heads, manifolds[ida pattern] and CB ratio rockers so these are what I will use.

The engine spec is complete[ well in my head anyway ]
2276
Mag case, usual mods
DPR welded crank with matching flywheel
Scat rods
Wiseco pistons
AA cylinders


CB comp eliminator heads & match ported iDA pattern manifolds
CB 1.4 ratio rockers
Engle cam, Scat lifters
Scat sump
Stock VW head studs, 8mm
WBX push rod tubes
Manton push rods[ I would really like to try ally push rods but they are to expensive to fit this criteria]
1 3/4 header

  

Hey Richie,

Glad to hear your back onto this project and look forward to reading the progress updates and the results of test n tune next year  

Any tech details for us on what valve sizes you went for in the Comp Elims, what Compression Ratio your aiming for ?

How about cam grind and rod length ?

Are you planning to run radials out back or DOT's or Slicks ?

You had a completely valid point up at Shakey last year when you ribbed me over the use of DOT's and I'm now thinking next year of just running radials  

Cheers,

Shane.

[fahrvergnugen]

Hi Paul

so you want to finish the pan and not change you mind and do it again?    I don't believe it

Where will you mount the bottle? then were will you run the main nitrous feed line to the solenoid? then if you have the bottle in the car with you it must have a vent tube to outside the cabin

cheers Richie

Hi Rich,
Be nice .
Yes I want to finish it, I already changed my mind so many times I think I am done changing.
The bottle will be in the rear seat area. I am thinking to keep all the solenoids and stuff somewhere in the gearbox area and the vent line can go trough the luggage compartment floor. But this has nothing to do with the chassis. The fuelpump will be mounted up front and I already have two big fuel lines trough the chassis.

Cheers Paul.

[fahrvergnugen]

woahahahahahaha ;-)

Michael

You hush

[richie]

 
Hey Richie,

Glad to hear your back onto this project and look forward to reading the progress updates and the results of test n tune next year  

Any tech details for us on what valve sizes you went for in the Comp Elims, what Compression Ratio your aiming for ?

How about cam grind and rod length ?

Are you planning to run radials out back or DOT's or Slicks ?

You had a completely valid point up at Shakey last year when you ribbed me over the use of DOT's and I'm now thinking next year of just running radials  

Cheers,

Shane.

Hi Shane

thanks, well I thought it was time someone shut Danny up

Here's an honest answer, the main reason for most things is cost/hp

Heads, what they came with

Compression, what it ends up at with a sensible deck

Cam, I got 4 different grinds here to choose, but the one I used before is here and checks out good so proberly that as its free

Rod length, again down to cost

Tyres, for the road some 205/65/15s that came of a friends car and I couldn't sell, so are cheap, do you see a theme here yet? 

 



But to answer factually/properly,

heads 46/38, they are the older casting without the valves moved over so much

compression just over 10/1, getting the deck height were I want it will be more important to me

cam, I got a 46, 47, 87 or 89 but also a used 47, I think they would all do the job

rods 5.4, keep it narrow, don't need long cylinders[cost more] and get shorter push rods as a bonus

 I also got some new second hand M&H drag radials I will try just to see, but ultimately some M&H slicks[ used, chosen as they were cheap]

I am not hung up on having the "cool look at me parts or any stupid must do rules" just to keep the internet warriors happy , and mainly will concentrate on cost, performance and safety[ hence the slicks] 
To me its safer on a drag strip prepped for slicks to use slicks when pushing yourself and the car to the limits

A proper True legal street car might need a bunch of stuff only VOSA would know about[ wheels safety tested and EEC approved and exhaust noise springs to mind ]  I will leave it at that.


So far I managed to keep to the intended path apart from two things, the wheels and throttle bodies [that are on there way] but even then they were both a deal for what they are

cheers Richie

[richie]

Hi Paul

so you want to finish the pan and not change you mind and do it again?    I don't believe it

Where will you mount the bottle? then were will you run the main nitrous feed line to the solenoid? then if you have the bottle in the car with you it must have a vent tube to outside the cabin

cheers Richie

Hi Rich,
Be nice .
Yes I want to finish it, I already changed my mind so many times I think I am done changing.
The bottle will be in the rear seat area. I am thinking to keep all the solenoids and stuff somewhere in the gearbox area and the vent line can go trough the luggage compartment floor. But this has nothing to do with the chassis. The fuelpump will be mounted up front and I already have two big fuel lines trough the chassis.

Cheers Paul.

Sounds like you are done then, get it painted before you do change you mind


cheers Richie

[Shane Noone]

Yep, see the theme  and why not !! After all it's kind of mentioned in the title I guess 

Parts list and tech specs and options look good and definetly street and nothing too exotic there.....

Talking about Danny  and I'm sure he's gonna chip in pretty soon( hello Danny ) , his 2276 with efi reworked 044's 10:5 CR and fk87 pretty sure he squeezed high 10's consistenly in lil lizzie with an 80 shot of NOS....  I know it wasn't street legal at the time and he wasn't driving to and from the tracks etc but don't think the car was too far off being as street legal as say mine is ? So pretty good benchmark to aim at for you ?

Did you have an upper limit in mind for the amount of NOS you would add to push your 2276 into the 10 zone ?

It's going to be real interesting indeed and best of luck with this project.

Cheers Shane.

[dannyboy]

im thinking about a how much to run 10s in a street legal vert project 

[richie]

im thinking about a how much to run 10s in a street legal vert project 

Been there, seen it, done it    Hope you actually try though, it would be interesting to see how you get on compared to my efforts back then


Shane

somewhere around 80hp should do it, a lot of it will depend on what the car ends up weighing.

I figure I should be able to put as much in as the engine makes N/A so about 180/190hp more, maybe I can turn it into "how much money to run 9s in a street car" then 


cheers Richie

[dannyboy]

im thinking about a how much to run 10s in a street legal vert project 

Been there, seen it, done it    Hope you actually try though, it would be interesting to see how you get on compared to my efforts back then


Shane

somewhere around 80hp should do it, a lot of it will depend on what the car ends up weighing.

I figure I should be able to put as much in as the engine makes N/A so about 180/190hp more, maybe I can turn it into "how much money to run 9s in a street car" then 


cheers Richie

ill be sticking with the racecar next year but it is in my mind to see how fast i can go befroe the box shits itself .i know the engine with gas will run 11s easy but my main thing is i dont want to put a cage in the car and fuck going fast without one 
how fast didi you go on gas in th vert? out of intrest?

[nicolas]

what size tyres will you fit on the gas burners? and what is the maximum size without too much compromise in safety, handling,… ?

[richie]

i dont want to put a cage in the car and fuck going fast without one 

Agreed they need a cage for sure

how fast didi you go on gas in th vert? out of intrest?

10.88 best

[richie]

what size tyres will you fit on the gas burners? and what is the maximum size without too much compromise in safety, handling,… ?

205 is fine, I would run a 215/65/15 drag radial no problem, and the wide [7inch] phoenix fitted no problem on the old cab

cheers Richie

[johandryselius]

Richie!
Do you need some Raceware cylinder/head studs for the engine? I have new sets in mid january (8 & 10 mm).
Johan

[richie]

Richie!
Do you need some Raceware cylinder/head studs for the engine? I have new sets in mid january (8 & 10 mm).
Johan

Hi Johan,

they dont sound cheap unless you are giving me some?     I will just use stock vw 8mm studs, they work fine for what I am doing


cheers Richie

[richie]

With the engine plans sorted in my head the gearbox was next, as I haven't found a bargain "zero pass race box" with the ratios I need I have been looking for internals, I got a good IRS box for a core cheap, I also got a deal on some lightly used 3rd and 4th gears, 1 pair are here and the others on there way.

[dannyboy]

what was the gearbox you used to run on gas ? 091 first gear stock mod or full weddle/ftc internals? i always wondered how much more i could get from my stock mod box when i upgraded to ftc internals and a spool