How much money to run 10s in a street car?now with part2, The evolution to turbo

[Erlend / bug66]

I'll buy this one:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Flow-Control-Valves/1-4-NPT-5-GPM-PRINCE-WFC-400-IN-LINE-FLOW-CONTROL-9-7960-4.axd

[Tufty65]

I'll buy this one:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Flow-Control-Valves/1-4-NPT-5-GPM-PRINCE-WFC-400-IN-LINE-FLOW-CONTROL-9-7960-4.axd

Have you used that one ? as it's similar to the one I already have and because they only really work at high pressures and the window of adjustment on them when you turn the dial is only about 1mm which is no good.
Sorry for the thread hijack Richie, better get back on topic.

[richie]

I'll buy this one:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Flow-Control-Valves/1-4-NPT-5-GPM-PRINCE-WFC-400-IN-LINE-FLOW-CONTROL-9-7960-4.axd

Have you used that one ? as it's similar to the one I already have and because they only really work at high pressures and the window of adjustment on them when you turn the dial is only about 1mm which is no good.
Sorry for the thread hijack Richie, better get back on topic.

No problem, that one does look like mine though, it only the last 3/4 of a turn that really helps with mine, not found a "one size fits all" valve yet on my travels, still looking though

[leec]

Hi Richie,
This Nitrous idea has got me thinking. If I had a complete longblock with no ignition/carbs etc what would be the cost in replicating the fuel injection/ignition/nitrous system you run on the 67?

Lee

[dannyboy]

about the same as idas msd 

[modnrod]

Hi Richie,
This Nitrous idea has got me thinking.
Lee

Oh dear.
 

[richie]

Hi Richie,
This Nitrous idea has got me thinking.
Lee

Oh dear.
 

Now, now,  the idea is to get people thinking about it   Done right its a really good way to make power





Lee, as Danny said the EFI set up is probably very similar in cost to a pair of IDAs with all the stuff done to them and a MSD ignition set up[dizzy, box, coil & leads] I don't have all the costing to hand as I am somewhere warm now, but off top of my head ECU, loom, sensors & Injectors cost £650, Throttle bodies with fuel rails and TPS were $800 so say £550 and crank trigger set up with pulley about £100, some of this was used so new would be more

Now with a IDA set up with nitrous you really need 2 pumps, yes people do it with one but it has to be a really good pump & 2 regulators, but if you do it on budget and use say 2 holley pumps you need 2 regs, 2 fuel lines from tank to rear etc etc and I get expensive quickly but the EFI pump usually has plenty of reserve and you just T off the fuel line for the nitrous and save even more

cheers Richie

[Paul Bahnstormerz]

I actually think the carb setup nitrous costs more the FI setup, add in the safety gear, fuel pressure switches if running low pressure over FI pressure, retard switches or the top end MSD boxes.
The fuel injection higher pressure also helps deliver fuel a little quicker than a lower pressure carb setup, so thanks to our engine design, a controlled delay on the n2o solenoid otherwise you have lean nitrous mix as its coming at 1000 psi over 10 psi fuel pressure so that's a digital controller.
Or ideal scenario, dual n2o and fuel solenoids, each pair feeding each head. So double the price of the solenoids.
Add in all the additional stuff; assorted gauges (fuel and nitrous), bottle heater and bottle pressure safety switch for heater. It got expensive quick

[dannyboy]

trouble is efi isn't what the cool kids use.... 

[richie]

I actually think the carb setup nitrous costs more the FI setup, add in the safety gear, fuel pressure switches if running low pressure over FI pressure, retard switches or the top end MSD boxes.
The fuel injection higher pressure also helps deliver fuel a little quicker than a lower pressure carb setup, so thanks to our engine design, a controlled delay on the n2o solenoid otherwise you have lean nitrous mix as its coming at 1000 psi over 10 psi fuel pressure so that's a digital controller.
Or ideal scenario, dual n2o and fuel solenoids, each pair feeding each head. So double the price of the solenoids.
Add in all the additional stuff; assorted gauges (fuel and nitrous), bottle heater and bottle pressure safety switch for heater. It got expensive quick

As ECUs get better and cheaper and more have the knowledge to tune them I think you are right, a simple EFI set up with nitrous is cheaper than carbs/msd/nitrous set up, some of the stuff you mention is sold to play on peoples paranoia about "nitrous makes your engine go bang" stories
I think a controller really helps make it smoother but have need had the need for the rest of the add ons, and as we are not trying to get the last hp out of every once of nitrous having real short lines and using 2 solenoids per side isn't needed either, well not for me anyway   A bottle heater is nice but I manage without one at moment.
For most out there who might try this now a 50hp shot will be plenty enough and at that level it should just be kept simple, a kit and a couple of activation switches


Danny, no idea what you are talking about, all the cool kids have EFI on there moms Honda and tune it with there phone   apparently

cheers Richie

[Paul Bahnstormerz]

So what are you saying Richie? This setup I have is OTT? I watched fast n furious all of them back to back!! 😉

[Turbo_Rich]

Great thread Richie very interesting to see the progress and good to see the tradition of breaking the class index in style

A couple of vids i took of project 10.

https://youtu.be/EzO9nWldcRs

https://youtu.be/DT5Op6yWcGs

oh and one of the 8.13 in the other car

https://youtu.be/nitoOQKRkJA

[richie]

So what are you saying Richie? This setup I have is OTT? I watched fast n furious all of them back to back!! 😉

  Tosser     That set up is more for a 9 sec tube car

[richie]

Great thread Richie very interesting to see the progress and good to see the tradition of breaking the class index in style

A couple of vids i took of project 10.

https://youtu.be/EzO9nWldcRs

https://youtu.be/DT5Op6yWcGs

oh and one of the 8.13 in the other car

https://youtu.be/nitoOQKRkJA

Thanks Rich, vids are always cool to see from different places, now if SE would just allow a little 6inch slick for 4 cylinder cars I could go run it there and not break out ever

[Paul Bahnstormerz]

  Tosser     That set up is more for a 9 sec tube car

Oh well it will be interesting when the car is back next year

[richie]

  Tosser     That set up is more for a 9 sec tube car

Oh well it will be interesting when the car is back next year

Yep, just stick to the plan now and see how it works, should be fun anyway

[richie]

I'll buy this one:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Flow-Control-Valves/1-4-NPT-5-GPM-PRINCE-WFC-400-IN-LINE-FLOW-CONTROL-9-7960-4.axd

I got one of these now, wont be buying another one, It needs a selection of conversion fittings to make it work and is no better than what I was using before

cheers Richie

[richie]

I splashed out and bought a new Berg RHD shifter, got one with a nice bend in it so no more excuses for missed shifts next year

[NoBars]

If you would just sit on the correct side of the car....

[richie]

If you would just sit on the correct side of the car....

I just tried, seems worse and I cant reach the pedals ?   

[WhiteTrash]

Let's try and get another set of pedals in the car like the learner driver cars have.
That'll confuse people 

[modnrod]

My wife's been asking for an extra brake pedal for years........

[RPM Tim]

For most out there who might try this now a 50hp shot will be plenty enough and at that level it should just be kept simple, a kit and a couple of activation switches



cheers Richie

Say someone  is considering this.. is there a kit out that you would recommend? Have you seen problems with different brand solenoids over any other?
Using carbs/ Ida's at the moment, so thinking just wot and a window switch would be fine for a 50-75ish shot & would be fun!

Just saw this is my first post on this forum, so thank you for this thread! Maybe I can bump my 12sec car to a 10

[richie]

Say someone  is considering this.. is there a kit out that you would recommend? Have you seen problems with different brand solenoids over any other?
Using carbs/ Ida's at the moment, so thinking just wot and a window switch would be fine for a 50-75ish shot & would be fun!

Just saw this is my first post on this forum, so thank you for this thread! Maybe I can bump my 12sec car to a 10

I like the way you are thinking

What country are you in?

I just have regular NOS brand solenoids on car at moment but given choice I would use WON solenoids, a simple arm switch, throttle activated micro switch would be good enough for 50hp, depending on how you launch & leave line, 2step? off Handbrake/E brake? then an additional micro switch on clutch or handbrake would be useful to stop nitrous being on until you leave line

cheers Richie

[RPM Tim]

In the US so not sure of availability of WON stuff, A quick look at Summit shows NX has a kit for acvw and I assume they're good enough 
  I was also thinking may need another switch since I leave around 6k+,  off the handbrake. I do have a 2step and will get it working over winter ,so maybe I can use the same activation switch for both // it uses a normally closed switch so perfect? That will be somewhere off the brake handle,

[richie]

In the US so not sure of availability of WON stuff, A quick look at Summit shows NX has a kit for acvw and I assume they're good enough 
  I was also thinking may need another switch since I leave around 6k+,  off the handbrake. I do have a 2step and will get it working over winter ,so maybe I can use the same activation switch for both // it uses a normally closed switch so perfect? That will be somewhere off the brake handle,

I have never used NX brand so cant say, but they have been around a while and you don't see anything negative so see no reason why not, and a 2 way switch sounds ideal, good luck

[richie]

I am not one for leaving stuff alone so with winter here I got plans for some things that will hopefully make it better both on street and ET, so 1st thing loose a little weight[ yes me as well   ] but focussing on the car, idea is still to keep it as cheap as possible but with the success of "how much money to run 10s in a street car"  there is only one logical next phase 

So I spent a few hours looking at stuff that could be lighter without much outlay, 1st all the stupid things like bolts that are to long are getting shortened and replacing the steel bolts and washers on wings and running boards with lighter ones. My aim is to get car down to about 1700lbs [and not go crazy with a holesaw or drill]  weight with driver suited up in it so helmet etc.
So todays total loss 909grams/2lb 0.06 which doesn't include all the grinding/cutting filings on the floor

cheers Richie

[K-Roc]

In the US so not sure of availability of WON stuff, A quick look at Summit shows NX has a kit for acvw and I assume they're good enough 
  I was also thinking may need another switch since I leave around 6k+,  off the handbrake. I do have a 2step and will get it working over winter ,so maybe I can use the same activation switch for both // it uses a normally closed switch so perfect? That will be somewhere off the brake handle,

Hey if your looking for a no nonsense basic kit at the 50-75 H.P. power level, this is about the best deal your gonna find.
https://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=127

I have purchase from him many times, Good service and prices.

Nitrous Supply in Huntington Beach is pretty good too.

https://www.nitroussupply.com/proddetail.php?prod=05430&cat=94

[Berger]

I am not one for leaving stuff alone so with winter here I got plans for some things that will hopefully make it better both on street and ET, so 1st thing loose a little weight[ yes me as well   ] but focussing on the car, idea is still to keep it as cheap as possible but with the success of "how much money to run 10s in a street car"  there is only one logical next phase 

So I spent a few hours looking at stuff that could be lighter without much outlay, 1st all the stupid things like bolts that are to long are getting shortened and replacing the steel bolts and washers on wings and running boards with lighter ones. My aim is to get car down to about 1700lbs [and not go crazy with a holesaw or drill]  weight with driver suited up in it so helmet etc.
So todays total loss 909grams/2lb 0.06 which doesn't include all the grinding/cutting filings on the floor

cheers Richie

"how much faster can you run in a 10 second street car" ?? 

I don`t remember if you have lexand or glass windows in this car, but changing into lexan on side and rear window is easy lost pounds

[richie]

I am not one for leaving stuff alone so with winter here I got plans for some things that will hopefully make it better both on street and ET, so 1st thing loose a little weight[ yes me as well   ] but focussing on the car, idea is still to keep it as cheap as possible but with the success of "how much money to run 10s in a street car"  there is only one logical next phase 

So I spent a few hours looking at stuff that could be lighter without much outlay, 1st all the stupid things like bolts that are to long are getting shortened and replacing the steel bolts and washers on wings and running boards with lighter ones. My aim is to get car down to about 1700lbs [and not go crazy with a holesaw or drill]  weight with driver suited up in it so helmet etc.
So todays total loss 909grams/2lb 0.06 which doesn't include all the grinding/cutting filings on the floor

cheers Richie

"how much faster can you run in a 10 second street car" ?? 

I don`t remember if you have lexand or glass windows in this car, but changing into lexan on side and rear window is easy lost pounds

Its all genuine VW etched glass so that would help , just need to find some sensibly priced and cut it myself I think

cheers Richie