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How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
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Topic: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct' (Read 30683 times)
Mabbo
Jr. Member
Posts: 69
How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
on:
July 17, 2014, 08:53:50 am »
Hello,
I have restored a 1968 1200 standard model Beetle and have tried to make it look fairly period correct - Forumla Vee wheels, fat biscuit interior, hex T bars, no modern gauges etc.
Shortly after I built it I decided my engine was too modern looking for the rest of the car. I have changed the 45 DRLA for a pair of IDA on short reverse manifolds, and have just bought a Deano swivel linkage to replace the CSP. I have also bought a Magneto to replave the CB dizzy. What else would you suggest I change to look more traditional cal look?
Any suggestiong for the breather box?
As soon as I have some more money I will replace the sump and rocker covers for DDS or Race Trim, and I would like some Deano manifolds.
I'm un-decided on the black fittings for the breathers. I think they look more smart than just a hose clip but I know they are not period correct either.
Should I fit the stock velocity stacks?
Basically, Im looking for advice / opinions from you guys that were around 'back in the day' on how to improve my car
How it looks now:
Cheers,
Mabbo
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Tourist
Full Member
Posts: 165
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #1 on:
July 17, 2014, 09:06:11 am »
Good morning Neil
,
I'm probably not going to be much help
, but both of Keith Seume's Cal Look bibles would help I think, unless you have them already
Martin.
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Mabbo
Jr. Member
Posts: 69
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #2 on:
July 17, 2014, 09:23:00 am »
Morning Martin,
Iv read them, prob still have them somewhere. More than likely in my moms loft.
Hope your well anyway mate.
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richie
Hero Member
Posts: 5687
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #3 on:
July 17, 2014, 09:24:52 am »
Personally I don't think many would have had all those parts, you were more likely to see a german 009, blue coil, IDAs on Empi or generic manifolds, stock valve covers, Berg sump, maybe a Santana pulley with stock original top pulley etc than the collector type pieces[DDS, Race trim, Truhaft etc] and a small breather box
cheers Richie
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Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!
Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless
Mabbo
Jr. Member
Posts: 69
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #4 on:
July 17, 2014, 09:55:02 am »
Cheers Richie.
I did consider an 009 or 010, but a Magneto came up for sale and I love the way they look.
I'm currently running stock valve covers so will keep those and look for a small breather box. What sort of breathers were popular back in the day? I have read about people running a hose from each rocker cover with a slit over the gearbox to vent - I wont be doing that
Thanks again.
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richie
Hero Member
Posts: 5687
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #5 on:
July 17, 2014, 11:00:04 am »
Quote from: Mabbo on July 17, 2014, 09:55:02 am
Cheers Richie.
I did consider an 009 or 010, but a Magneto came up for sale and I love the way they look.
I'm currently running stock valve covers so will keep those and look for a small breather box. What sort of breathers were popular back in the day? I have read about people running a hose from each rocker cover with a slit over the gearbox to vent - I wont be doing that
Thanks again.
If you got the mag already then run it
hopefully your linkage will clear it?
I don't know if there were any fabbed breather boxes back then, all I can think of is the small rectangle box like the DDS and Race trim boxes, there were several versions available with and without logo's but all similar in size and style
cheers Richie
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Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!
Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless
richie
Hero Member
Posts: 5687
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #6 on:
July 17, 2014, 11:04:13 am »
Someone much more in the know than me told me to be correct for back in the 70s with a Mag its important to have the correct brown cap, cant remember if it was a top entry or right angled entry to the cap though, all in the details
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Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!
Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless
speedwell
Hero Member
Posts: 14710
the archivist
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #7 on:
July 17, 2014, 11:27:50 am »
richie , someone said to me that those breather box (small one DDS racetrim etc..) don't breathe correctly big engine , just small displacement
is that true ??
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j-f
Hero Member
Posts: 1603
Jean-François
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #8 on:
July 17, 2014, 14:08:20 pm »
Quote from: speedwell on July 17, 2014, 11:27:50 am
richie , someone said to me that those breather box (small one DDS racetrim etc..) don't breathe correctly big engine , just small displacement
is that true ??
I think you can't really make a strocker engine breath through the valve covers and the size of the breather box will not be that important. Oil return from the heads through the pushrods tube. Adding a breathed valve covers help the oil to return to the case because valve covers no more are airtight and help siphoning the oil from the heads to the case. If oil puke through the breather box, it's because there is still too much pressure in the case and the oil is pushed to the breather box.
On a bigger engine, adding a venting through the fuel pump hole seems to me a better option.
On the other hand, I'm not an engine builder or experienced hot rod VW guru, but that's something I've got some thinking
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jhicken
DKK
Sr. Member
Posts: 314
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #9 on:
July 17, 2014, 14:10:47 pm »
You have a beautiful car there. But if you want to be totally period correct, a true period cal look car wouldn't have trim. It would also use Lucas turn signals and shave the originals. Also you saw a lot of color matched headlight rings.
And although period correct, and even though I had a set of those same wheels on my '67 back in '77, the early Rivies weren't very popular. All the cool kids were running Empi 8's, later Rivies, Sprint Stars, Centerlines, and of course Alloys, on late model cars.
Burg Linkage, blue coils, 009's, and Santana pulleys were common. Hurst or DDS shifters were popular too.
-jeffrey
«
Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 15:28:01 pm by jhicken
»
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Der Kleiner Kampfwagens
Central Jersey Volkswagen Society
Zach Gomulka
Hero Member
Posts: 6991
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #10 on:
July 17, 2014, 15:23:12 pm »
Good looking car you've got there. I would swap out the alternator for a generator, and put a Santana pulley on the crank. A power pulley will give the best look, if you can afford the cooling loss. Some chrome tips on the QP's would be a nice touch also.
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
Posts: 7121
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #11 on:
July 17, 2014, 23:32:35 pm »
from what I have seen the engines of the era ran real VW stale air fan housings (with the indent clearance for stock air filter in top-center). Stock IDA air horns, not the Jaycee ones. Low gloss black finish on shrouds. And no breather. Most guys ran the dump-hose right off stock VW filler down through rear tin and/or breather hose up over trans, connecting each valve cover, with a small cut at highest point over hose. Somewhere there's a thread of DKP at Featherly Park 1972 here with the pics you need to see. Nice car.
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Jim Ratto
Hero Member
Posts: 7121
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #12 on:
July 17, 2014, 23:34:51 pm »
have a look....
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17153.msg248244.html#msg248244
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56BLITZ
DKK
Sr. Member
Posts: 271
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #13 on:
July 18, 2014, 00:21:24 am »
Quote from: Mabbo on July 17, 2014, 08:53:50 am
What else would you suggest I change to look more traditional cal look?
Basically, Im looking for advice / opinions from you guys that were around 'back in the day' on how to improve my car
I was looking at cars built in the mid-seventies when I was building my cars in the late-seventies . . . SO, what year do you consider 'Back in the day'?
I always had the backing plate chromed before bolting it to my Motorola alternator.
I could afford to have just a few things chromed . . . at the chrome plating shop! At that time, the cheap, pre-chromed junk was not drowning us yet!
+1 on the Santana pulley & stock VW rocker covers for my cars.
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Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador!
MC Dyno Don
Full Member
Posts: 201
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #14 on:
July 18, 2014, 01:03:51 am »
Self improvement tip>> lift and tuck the muffs..... Nice car, .... just keep it simple and clean..!!
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johnl
Hero Member
Posts: 1533
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #15 on:
July 18, 2014, 04:36:50 am »
Quote from: jhicken on July 17, 2014, 14:10:47 pm
You have a beautiful car there. But if you want to be totally period correct, a true period cal look car wouldn't have trim. It would also use Lucas turn signals and shave the originals. Also you saw a lot of color matched headlight rings.
Here is a bit of a history lesson. The Lucas light originated on Greg Aronson's white '63 sedan. Greg Aronson and Doug Haydon worked at the AJS Foreign Car Parts store in the machine shop and I worked in parts. One day Greg was walking down one of the parts isles and spotted the Lucas light and the rest is history. The building is still there and is located at 1515 N. St. College Ave. in Anaheim between the 91 freeway and Orangethorpe Ave. I can't tell you how many sets of those lights I sold while employed there and later at Auto Haus.....
And although period correct, and even though I had a set of those same wheels on my '67 back in '77, the early Rivies weren't very popular. All the cool kids were running Empi 8's, later Rivies, Sprint Stars, Centerlines, and of course Alloys, on late model cars.
Burg Linkage, blue coils, 009's, and Santana pulleys were common. Hurst or DDS shifters were popular too.
-jeffrey
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DKK
Hero Member
Posts: 5312
We can't force ya to have fun
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #16 on:
July 18, 2014, 06:39:27 am »
Quote from: johnl on July 18, 2014, 04:36:50 am
Here is a bit of a history lesson. The Lucas light originated on Greg Aronson's white '63 sedan. Greg Aronson and Doug Haydon worked at the AJS Foreign Car Parts store in the machine shop and I worked in parts. One day Greg was walking down one of the parts isles and spotted the Lucas light and the rest is history. The building is still there and is located at 1515 N. St. College Ave. in Anaheim between the 91 freeway and Orangethorpe Ave. I can't tell you how many sets of those lights I sold while employed there and later at Auto Haus.....
I too sold Lucas lights and 48 IDAs out of the same store on 1515 N. St. College when it was owned be BAP/Geon
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67 Beetle - The Deuce Roadster of Cal Look
Mabbo
Jr. Member
Posts: 69
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #17 on:
July 18, 2014, 09:28:07 am »
Thanks for all the replys guys
As for the body, I know it wouldn't have had the chrome but when I restored it I wanted to keep the body as close to factory as possible. As its a 1200 base model the indicator housings are painted body colour - which I like as you don't see many. I'm not a big fan of the way Lucas indicators look on late wings either.
I want my car to look how someone
may
have built it late 70's. Someone commented on Rivieras not being popular in the late 70's and the cool kids were running Empi 8's or Sprints etc... I don't mind not being in the cool crew
I don't really mind if the car has parts that weren't popular, as long as they don't look out of place. I chose the Rivs as they are not very common and were around in the 70's. I didn't want a repro wheel and loads of people run Sprints.
So, were there any big differences between mid to late 70's styles, and early 80s? I don't mind if its not 100% correct - I just don't want modern parts like MSD ignition, billet top pulley, turbo muffler, autometer gauges that you see so often. I will change out the Jaycee stacks for the stock ones.
A few have mentioned a Santana pulley... I will keep an eye out for an original
Also, I would like a dynamo, but my Alternator is brand new. I will change to a dynamo when the alternator gives up.
I had already planned to chrome the muffler tips at some point, I spent ages looking for a Thunderbird or similar duel quiet pack with flared tips but couldn't find anything, so went with one from Richie as it had flare tips that I could chrome later
What are peoples opinions on the Berg 207 breather box -
http://www.geneberg.com/images/IMG_4046%20(Small).JPG
When were these available?
Some
very
cool pictures on the DKP road trip thread. There are a few more than I expected that ran the chrome trim. I have to say, I love Mark Thurber's dash.
Another current engine pic if anyone is interested:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/IMAG2708.jpg
I would like to change the black fittings for the breather hoses too I think.
Thanks again for your comments,
Mabbo
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glenn
Hero Member
Posts: 639
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #18 on:
July 18, 2014, 10:47:16 am »
I would loose the aftermarket 36hp shroud and go with a stock Type 181. Also a Bosch 010 over a mag.
My 2180, while not 100% Cal Look, it's heavily influenced.
«
Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 10:48:51 am by glenn
»
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs
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74 Beetle Restoration
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2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for,
but you always pay for what you get"
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Sarge
Hero Member
Posts: 4345
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #19 on:
July 18, 2014, 13:36:18 pm »
Here's the "period-correct" 1835cc I was running in my rig just before we parted company back in 1972. What a rat's nest... but it DID run good
As for venting the valve covers and breather boxes... to this day, I still run the vent hose over the trans from one cover to the other with a notch cut
at the high point and no breather box. Old habits are hard to break.
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DKP III
70slooker
Full Member
Posts: 116
hello
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #20 on:
July 18, 2014, 15:39:54 pm »
Those red manifolds are great!
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Zündfolge Car Club
HERB
Newbie
Posts: 43
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #21 on:
July 18, 2014, 18:48:45 pm »
The breather? Just a piece of braided cloth hose running from the oil filler straight down through the engine tin.
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Jim Ratto
Hero Member
Posts: 7121
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #22 on:
July 18, 2014, 18:59:07 pm »
Quote from: glenn on July 18, 2014, 10:47:16 am
I would loose the aftermarket 36hp shroud and go with a stock Type 181. Also a Bosch 010 over a mag.
My 2180, while not 100% Cal Look, it's heavily influenced.
in the "how to do it right" encyclopedia of hot rod VW stuff for sure.... right here.
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Stevo_L
Jr. Member
Posts: 77
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #23 on:
July 23, 2014, 19:57:31 pm »
as said before, change alternator to a dynamo, change the dizzy and a blue coil.
here is my version of a tsz-h dizzy from a vanagon in an old housing.
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
what about an modified oilfilter for breatherbox?
seen on
www.oval56.com
http://www.oval56.com/bilder/Motoransicht.JPG
http://www.oval56.com/bilder/181106%2004.jpg
or a breather box on the alternatorstand from a 356/912 model?
and maybe change the carb linkage to a berg..?
«
Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 20:08:00 pm by Stevo_L
»
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glenn
Hero Member
Posts: 639
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #24 on:
July 23, 2014, 20:01:05 pm »
Quote from: Wignition on July 18, 2014, 18:59:07 pm
Quote from: glenn on July 18, 2014, 10:47:16 am
I would loose the aftermarket 36hp shroud and go with a stock Type 181. Also a Bosch 010 over a mag.
My 2180, while not 100% Cal Look, it's heavily influenced.
in the "how to do it right" encyclopedia of hot rod VW stuff for sure.... right here.
Thanks
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs
|
74 Beetle Restoration
|
2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for,
but you always pay for what you get"
Restored Bosch Cast Iron Distributors
www.DasVolks.com
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Mabbo
Jr. Member
Posts: 69
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #25 on:
July 24, 2014, 14:31:22 pm »
Glenn,
Love your engine, and your car for that matter. I would have gone for an 010 direct from you, but a Magneto came up for sale fairly local and I really like the way they look, and its something a little different from the norm... From photos Iv seen, it looks like a few people used them in the 70s/80s - Not as popular as an 009 or 010, but more in keeping with the theme than a CD / Petronix / MSD
Sarge - Cool pic. Those red manifolds are ace.
So, I fitted the DDS linkage. I had to put a slight bend in one of the arms to clear the Mag:
Magneto:
I also decided to replace the 36hp shroud with a 181 style shroud. I took a stock doghouse shroud, drilled the spot welds out the bottom corners so that the
air that went to the snorkels now goes over the heads:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/IMAG2785.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/IMAG2783.jpg
Trial fitted the flaps - They required some trimming but they all clear ok now, so I welded up the snorkels ready for prep and paint:
I will fit that once I have decided on a breather to replace the CSP box.
Cheers for all your advice guys
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Lids
Hero Member
Posts: 3527
show me the chedder
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #26 on:
July 24, 2014, 15:16:59 pm »
nice linkage
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speedwell
Hero Member
Posts: 14710
the archivist
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #27 on:
July 24, 2014, 19:34:58 pm »
engine looks more period correct , change the alternator to a dynamo , the breather , and for me , would go for non shiny paint for the tins i prefer the "original" color , as an original engine , for me john plow(cornpanzers) had a nice period correct enfine may be richard roth have some photos
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http://speedwell55.skynetblogs.be/
oldspeed 61 standard empi/speedwell
speedwell
Hero Member
Posts: 14710
the archivist
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #28 on:
July 24, 2014, 19:38:02 pm »
or here's another good example of cal look motor made by DOC DETAILS aka Frenchy
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http://speedwell55.skynetblogs.be/
oldspeed 61 standard empi/speedwell
speedwell
Hero Member
Posts: 14710
the archivist
Re: How to make my cal Look engine 'period correct'
«
Reply #29 on:
July 24, 2014, 20:19:38 pm »
another bice engine , is DUMPER 's engine
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http://speedwell55.skynetblogs.be/
oldspeed 61 standard empi/speedwell
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