Reliable N/A 225-230hp type 1 engine?

[Jim Ratto]

newbie.

[ovaldriver56]

why is that so udo?

Todays cranks will flex like hell . If you have an old crank like Berg with porsche rod diameter or okrasa with vw rods it is no problem . Nothing to say against Bugpack cranks , they work well up to 82 mm with vw rods on the street
This is a nice video - split window on german autobahn up to 130 miles 
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rkm3xLkhs2s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Rkm3xLkhs2s</a>

Udo

That is the car from Klaus, in that video. Awesome car with big type 4 engine

http://www.klaus-kaefertuning.de/

[karl h]

I have considered WBX case before, best things are that is has through bolts, it's diecast(?), and oilcapacity is bigger. But more work than type 1 based case. So far i know that it might need offset casesavers for type 1 heads, bushings(?) for type 1 lifters and no doghouse oilcooler.

the waterboxer case does not have throughbolts

[-Alex-]

Oh, i didnt know that. Always thought that it had... Are TF-1 cases still available?  Any experience with them?

How about exhaust on 2275cc 230hp engine wirh JPM Ms230 48x37 heads, is  1 3/4" small flange scat exhaust big enough? Muffler is A-1 2,5" renn käfer cup stainless.

So far this is my favorit topic here

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,12883.msg198712.html#msg198712

[Udo]

Sorry , but waterboxer is the strongest and best case you can get . This is my experience . 2,4 with 230 hp on the circuit track for more than 4 years now with no problems ...Heads are modifyed original VW 041's 

Udo

[-Alex-]

Udo, how much is  WBX case from you, machined to fit type 1 parts, 94mm cylinders, lifters etc?

with WBX case you cannot use doghouse cooling, is it true? Does the normal merged exhaust fit with wbx case, or does it interfere with oilfilter or something?

Lnengineering is selling also type 1 nickies on size 95mm, considering them, first need to know more about them, i did ask some questions from Charles.
4 inch cylinders can be also made as custom, price should be same or close as 94mm type 1 ones. But JPM MS230 4" heads cost 3200 euros, 94mm heads cost about 2500 euros.

-Alex

[Fiatdude]

Why do you guys keep trying to tell me my 90x101 engine isn't going to make a nice street engine??

[BeetleBug]

Why do you guys keep trying to tell me my 90x101 engine isn't going to make a nice street engine??

Because we know better than "there is no substitute for cubic inches" ? 

[Udo]

Why do you guys keep trying to tell me my 90x101 engine isn't going to make a nice street engine??

It is a nice engine , but depends on how fast you go on the street .
Is there a speed limit in finnland

a wbx case is not cheap . something about 800 euros ready to go
But you need a crank , that would be a problem . sometimes we find a limbach or okrasa here in germany

Udo

[-Alex-]

Yes, there is a speedlimit at finland, so  dangerous highspeed driving is out of question I can buy here bugpack 86 stroke crank, it has T4 middle bearingjournall and porsche rod journals.

WBX case prepped for T1 use at 800 euros doesn't sound wery expensive, CB alucase is in the same priceleague. Do i have to get rid of the original doghouse oilcooler with WBX case?

I have pics about TF-1 case, this costs about $1250, and pickup tube is $125, 0.100 cam drop gear set is $150. Throughbolts included, they recommend to tighten this together to 40 lbs/ft. Case is sandcasted from 356-T6 aluminum and there is no casesavers(!).

[Udo]

If you have that crank i would use an aluminium case . As i said it is not easy to get a waterboxer crank

Udo

[-Alex-]

So, type 1 crank doesn't fit to a WBX case with ease? Large or impossible modifications?

Few finnish guys have used type 1 cranks on a wasser case, but i dont know these modifications.

-Alex

[karl h]

i used a couple of T1 cranks in a wbx case. i match a set of stock size wbx bearings with a +1mm oversize no.1 type 1 bearing (the one with the shoulders) it has to have stock thrust size (22mm) and it drops right in after you installed a dowel (wbx uses tangs), you have to use a lower pulley made for a wbx type sandseal (stock on wbx) - i turned down my berg pulleys
the set of bearings you have left can be used to fit a wbx crank into a linebored (1mm) type one case.

[Jon]

the set of bearings you have left can be used to fit a wbx crank into a linebored (1mm) type one case.

Who does this modification to the type 1 engine? And can it be done with normal lineboring equipment?

[Udo]

The idea with the 1 mm oversize is a good idea , i thought about it . But how long are those avaliable ? if you have some with 21 mm thrust bearing it fits into the case like it is. But it is worth in times of aluminium cases ?. There are some wbx cranks , you only have to find them :-)

Udo

[karl h]

oops, did i mix up the thrust sizes? last time i didnt pay attention and had to machine a 1mm ring as a spacer. best is to measure the wbx thrust and order accordingly
i had a wbx counterweighted 82mm crank, but it needed a specially machined spacer to combat the taper that the prop-hub fits to in an aircraft engine and it had porsche journals making rods hard to get
a type 1 case needs only a normal 1mm oversize linebore to be able to fit the wbx 1st main - and you have to file the tangs into the main saddle (done in a minute). besides that the wbx thrust shims need a tang too (no shoulder bearing here).

[-Alex-]

I'll think i put 86 stroke crank, more torque because stock ratio IRS transaxle. With wbx case, now i know that with it must be used aftermarket fanhousing. Too bad that the most 36hp style shrouds are junk maybe. At the moment i have new brazilian doghouse fanshroud without heater outlets.

Hardest  part is now try sell new existing crank, rods and heads.  Seems that finland many want to discuss about building 200hp stroker engines, lots of opinions, but only few is actually building something like this 

[max2919]

If you are going to use WBX case, go 101,6mm bore.
Talk to UD or JPM about heads.
My friend has linebored a WBX case, all typ4 mains for his 86mm flang crank.













.

[Udo]

If you are going to use WBX case, go 101,6mm bore.
Talk to UD or JPM about heads.
My friend has linebored a WBX case, all typ4 mains for his 86mm flang crank.












.

What did he do with the 21 mm shoulder ? weld it up ?
I wanted to do the same for a turbo engine ,now we have an autocraft case   

Udo

[Tomi]

Seems that finland many want to discuss about building 200hp stroker engines, lots of opinions, but only few is actually building something like this 

As you know, talk is cheap. I've been following your build for a few years in finnish forum and hope you can finally freeze the specs and actually build the engine. Parts list at least is getting very interesting and it will be nice to see it perform at finnish happenings.

[-Alex-]

Yes, talk is cheap...New parts cost a lot of money, thats way i am selling old ones   But it takes almost a year to get these parts, due to lackof  enormous budget. I knew that that combo wasnt going to give more than 200hp, so here i am...again. I did have that CB alucase, but i didnt like its quality.

At the moment, body is under repairs and getting new rollgage

[karl h]

you can use a doghouse fan, just cut off the doghouse and close the slot where the air comes out
i used a stock doghouse fanhousing (because its cheap and has all the internal veins), removed the doghouse and cut it to 30hp shape
pic shows it on a 82x101.6 engine i built for a customer [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[qubek]

I did have that CB alucase, but i didnt like its quality.

Can you tell what was wrong with it?

[-Alex-]

I didnt like because all oilholes were drilled off about 5-6mm atleast, have heard that is has been cnc operator error or something Must be monkeys working at autolinea factory sometimes, huh?

[max2919]

If you are going to use WBX case, go 101,6mm bore.
Talk to UD or JPM about heads.
My friend has linebored a WBX case, all typ4 mains for his 86mm flang crank.



Yes, it was welded.








.

What did he do with the 21 mm shoulder ? weld it up ?
I wanted to do the same for a turbo engine ,now we have an autocraft case   

Udo

[Udo]

you can use a doghouse fan, just cut off the doghouse and close the slot where the air comes out
i used a stock doghouse fanhousing (because its cheap and has all the internal veins), removed the doghouse and cut it to 30hp shape
pic shows it on a 82x101.6 engine i built for a customer [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

What heads did you use on that engine ?

Udo

[-Alex-]

I am afraid that it disturbs the airflow if  i start modifioing the stock doghouse shroud.

[Johannes Persson]

Hello guys,

Thanks for considering(recommending) my products.

To 67-indeed/DVK reply#5,
I am really sorry if I have missed your emails/pm, I do my best to answer.
If you have a serious question, don't hesitate to shoot me an email.
Email me and I will send you some product info.

I am working on a new web page.

BTW the MS230 has 10 fins since a few years back.

Regards
Johannes

[-Alex-]

There is no point try to design and cnc machine your own similar head, because Johannes has only one truly fully streetable racehead   

Okay, i have once done quick 3D cad model about vw head






 

[Udo]

Hello guys,

Thanks for considering(recommending) my products.

To 67-indeed/DVK reply#5,
I am really sorry if I have missed your emails/pm, I do my best to answer.
If you have a serious question, don't hesitate to shoot me an email.
Email me and I will send you some product info.

I am working on a new web page.

BTW the MS230 has 10 fins since a few years back.

Regards
Johannes

Hi
Do you think your heads can handle 101,6 cylinders ?

Udo