My kitchen built 2276 dynoed at 165 PS. Engine tuning experts needed.

[181]

let´s go back to my kitchen built 2276 for now.

I plan to upgrade my current engine to gain some extra performance out of it..

my combo is:
2276, 82x94, forged crank with H-beams and VW journals, lightened flywheel, berg heavy pulley, Steve Tims 42x37 stage 2 heads with CB big beef manifolds, 48 DRLAS with 40 vents, FK 8 cam, 1.4:1 CB rockers, AC.NET HD ALU pushrods, CB lightweight lifters.. Ignited by 010 with Pertronix and blue coil. 9.5:1 comp. Exhaust is 1 5/8 sidewinder.

I´m very happy with this engine so far, cooling is very well with Type 1 doghouse system and extra alu oil cooler. Engine is really smooth, able of daily use and I have a limiter set at 6500 for a piece of mind.

Now I consider to keep my crank assembly, switch the cam for Web 86C with Udo´s lifters, bump compression close to 11.1, switch heads for Steve Tims Stage 2 Plus welded heads (44x37) and use 42 vents in my DRLAs along with some rejetting. 1 3/4 CSP Python header will go in place of 1 5/8 Sidewinder.  Otherwise I´ll keep all other components from my current combo and ditch the limiter for sure :-)

Is it worth it, what will I gain with these changes? I want to keep my engine naturally aspirated..

Feel free to contribute with your opinions and/or recommandations of what would you do with this engine.

Thanks,

Jan

[181]

anybody?:-)

[Zach Gomulka]

Definitely worth it. It's a good combo now, but you're taking it to the next level for sure. Should make 200+.

[rick m]

What is the diameter of your aluminum push rods (and the wall thickness)? Are you running dual springs? If so, what is the pressure on the seat and also on the nose of the cam at full lift?

Rick Mortensen

[181]

pushrods are 3/8" 2024 T-3 heat treated .095 wall thicness. I´ll have t check for pressure numbers, engine is in the stage of planning..

[181]

New Borla stacks fitted to my 48DRLAs- some tweaking on the mounting holes needed, some porting of the carb cover needed to achieve smooth transition between stacks and carb.

[181]

Steve Tims Stage2+with 44x37 valves

[181]

My Thing as a cool delivery wagen on my friend´s wedding day.

2276, 11:1, 86C cam in the back and cool bride on passenger seat can you ask for more?:-)

[Nico86]

Did you ran away with the bride? Would have been hard to catch you!

[181]

[181]

I want to ask experienced, does this wear pattern on my lifters look normal?

I had CB lifters with my FK8 cam and dual springs for approximately 5000 miles. I switched the cam for 86c with a new set of lifters but I really don´t know if it is OK to offer these for sale with the cam. That´s why I ask.

Thank you.

[181]

woke her up from winter sleep yesterday...


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DyACsLYzN6M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/DyACsLYzN6M</a>

[181]

synced today and firs short drive in 2013 season


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dSOtXRSZJpE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/dSOtXRSZJpE</a>

[181]

Hi guys,

we put my car on chassis dyno today and this is the result with belt, muffler and everything:



max power is 164.5PS at 6200rpm
max torque is 234Nm at 4000rpm

at 6200rpm my rev limiter kicked in

quick specs:

82x94 2276cc
Steve Tims Stage 2 Plus welded heads 44x37 valves
CB 1.4 rockers with Web 86C
1 3/4 Python exhaust
CR set at 11:1 with 1.2mm deck
48 DRLAs with 40 vents/200 airs/170 mains/65 idles/3.0 needle valves and Borla stacks without air cleaners
Ignition provided by 010 Bosch with pertronix module, blue coil and NGK D6EA plugs, bosch wires. Currently set with stroboscope at 28°BTDC


What does it tell you? Seems OK or some major troubles?  Thanks!

[Zach Gomulka]

Rev it higher

[Jesse/DVK]

At the crank or wheels?

I have the same heads but 42mm inlet valves and cam. Here is my dyno

http://keversite.nl/motoren/motor.php?id=68

[fish]

If that's at the wheels it's actually very good for 6200rpm and an indication of a healthy engine, with that head, cam, c/r combo you can expect peak HP around 7200-7500. What lifters did I you end up using on the 86c and most importantly how does the car drive.......seat of the pants compared to the old combo, I bet it comes on hard after 4500.

Good work anyway mate, enjoy your thing.........

[Speed-demon]

Good numbers. If you want more: try bigger venturies, play with ignition timing, make sure the jetting is spot on. Might be that one day of dyno time can give you 10-20 more. And move the rpm limiter to 7500!!!

[DWL_Puavo]

I agree with a bit more advance, I ran and raced with quite an similar engine with 86c and MSD, max advance was 32deg without problems. CR was 10.4:1. Also similar hp/torque curve with the cam kicking in 3500rpm.

I also agree with more rpm's, my engine was revved up to 6500 but with smaller carbs (45 dells with 37 venturis) without the hp curve yet going down. Also if you've got enough dyno time, try if a stinger (...on a python exhaust?) or a different muffler would straighen that drop on 5000-5500. Maybe some kind of resonance / acoustic thing going on.

[181]

Thanks guys. I ended up using a new set of CB lightweight lifters with loctited internal snap rings along with 86C. The car lost its bottom a bit and the power moved up so it´s less pleasant to drive in stop and go traffic but it hauls ass when needed.

My concern is the shape of the curves. Is this normal to have such falls between 3400-5000? If I understand correctly, 86C wake up at 3200. According to my LM2 I´m a bit lean at the top, so can this be the reason for the situation after 5000rpm?

Be patient with me this was my first dyno time ever.

Thanks again .-)

[BeetleBug]

My concern is the shape of the curves. Is this normal to have such falls between 3400-5000? If I understand correctly, 86C wake up at 3200. According to my LM2 I´m a bit lean at the top, so can this be the reason for the situation after 5000rpm?

I have to say that your curve is interesting. The dip you see in the transition area is often seen on NA engines but your engine picks up only to dip again 3 times. Between: 3600 - 3800 and again at 4000 - 4200 rpms but you also have a big dip at where it should peak: 5100 - 5600 rpms. Have you checked your igniton and made sure your engine get enough fuel?

-BB-

[181]

Good ideas!

I run a CB rotary pump, through stock fuel line, no regulator, stock DRLA banjos with stock internal screens, and 3.0 needle valves. Specs of the pump are 3 1/2 lbs. of uninterrupted fuel pressure at up to 30 gallons per hour. I suppose I´ll remove the screens and drill the banjos to make sure they flow.

I´m looking at this regulator with gauge: http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandise/products_details.asp?PartNo=FK85/G&CategoryID=8&PartsectionID=18, it would be useful to see if there are any pressure drops during the dyno run.

For ignition I have a 010 with pertronix and simple rev-limiting rotor. For next dyno run I can switch to other, bone stock and low mileage 010 distributor.

Can these drops be caused by some cross firing or interference on spark plug wires or valve float? I have CB 650 springs kit, thinwall mantons and CB lightweight lifters.

Thanks,

Jan

[BeetleBug]

Your AF will tell you if your engine have enough fuel. If enough fuel, then I would focus on the ignition. Sort the dip at peak and increase the RPMS a bit. I do not think your engine should should dyno a lot more because 165 HP at the wheels is a good result, 180 - 190 HP at the flywheel.

-BB-

[benlawrence]

Is the reading from the flywheel or at the wheels, i have a very similar spec combo, 82x94, 44x37 wedgeports,ida's 86c jpm springs  10.2-1 comp. I dyno'd it belt on through the muffler 37mm vents with unported manifolds (just matched on the ends) it made 160 flywheel at just 5500 on dynamics roller.
I have since welded and ported the manifolds right up and installed 42mm vents, downlow and midrange has obviously suffered but the top end 4k onwards has come alive bigtime, im yet to get back to the rollers. my graph on f7's 160 main 200 airs had the usual ida dip around 3-3.5kk (rich afr's) but at the top end was good. Yours is making 170+ ft torque, thats stout.

[181]

these numbers should be flywheel HP. The car was on the rollers but they recalculate it back to flywheel HP using some coeficients I think..

I ordered fuel pressure gauge and I´ll play with my LM2 wideband to find out more about posiible reasons.

[Fiatdude]

1-- Set the timing for 32*

2-- Fuel Pressure to carbs -- get rid of every possible restriction, (screens, narrow lines, sharp bends in the line) and check the screen in the tank -- -- if you are going to get a regulator (another restriction) get a new fuel pump that is, at least, getting 25-40 psi to the regulator and then have a short fuel line run to the carbs

[Torben Alstrup]

Hello
1. I have never had an engine with a set of those heads on the dyno. But assuming we are in the range of a Wedge port, the engine should peak somewhere in the 6300 - 6500 range. So set the limiter to minimum 6800 real life.
2. That header kills upper end performance a little bit. And is also a tad large for the combo. But it looks and fits nice.
3. The peak power should (ought to be) be about 185 hp with belt and muffler. Your peak torque is also low. ( I have built 2275´s with stage 2 heads and the 86C that pulls an easy 170 hp and 260 Nm. Awesome daily driver combo by the way)
4. Those stacks in that combo kills performance, as the intake length gets way too long. You should be about 14 - max 15" from valve to mouth.
5. What Fiat dude said, generally. You do not need quite as much to feed 200 hp. But better safe than sorry.
6. As for the zig zag power curve, that can be anything from tire slip to too large port volume to premature detonation. But I´d say that something annoys the combo. Hard to say exactly what without getting my fingers dirty.

T

PS. There is a good chance that there are another 5-10 hp in it when you get the rev limiter up to about 7000 rpm. If that happens youre not too far off.

[neil68]

My 2332 cc, 86C, 1.4 Scat rockers, 44 x 37 044 Ultra Mag Plus K-Roc porting, 1.75" Bugpack header, IDA's with 42 mm vents, stock fuel pump & fuel lines, and IIRC around 10.6:1 CR made180 HP to the wheels with the best reading at 34 degrees advance at 6200 rpm. Good for 12.8's in 1/4-mile at 104 MPH in a 2,025 lb (with driver) stock Beetle. Used large jets of 180 main and 210 air.

[181]

Holy Moley, a long time passed since I updated this thread! No actual news,. Car is sitting in a dry dark room and is awaiting its resurrection. I drove it 4 years ago for the last time :-o Decided to pull a trigger on a nice close ratio transmission, and with a lot of new performance products on the market I think an engine upgrade wil follow 

[181]

So yesterday I put some air into tires, some fresh gas, new battery, and she woke up after 4 years of rest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49q2SCqwCSY

Now brake check is on order, and waiting for my Berg 5!