Recipe for a mean sounding VW ?

[Neil Davies]

another factor is the header, I'd have to say stainless steel sounds like crap. Next time round I'm going with a ceramic coated mild steel system.

Totally agree - SS sounds hollow somehow, sucks all the warmth out of the sound.

[vwcab]

Yep,nice sound from "Sloval"

p.s.what are those frontwheels,any info on them?
 

[louisb]

Locked dizzy?

--louis

[Dave Rosique]

Wow Jim, good subject!

Firsthand, I've owned--built--worked on--been around plenty of mean engines (both sound and otherwise) over the last three decades or so. One that stands out was by no means the biggest or fastest, but respectable, memorable, and definately had the right sound. Many moons ago, back around 1976-77 I built a 1750cc for my '59 Ghia... Simple, lowbuck engine but it had some attitude. The engine consisted of a stock, NON counterweighted 69mm crank, NPR 90's, stock but lightened and polished connecting rods, super-light flywheel (even drilled), power pulley, Engle 120, DP heads milled so deep the first fin was missing (LOTS of compression), stock valves, ported by me, topped off w/48 IDA's on tall manifolds & a Bosch 010. I ran a Four Tuned 1 5/8 merge with a single Berg Q.P.-- Please note-- this was not the mass produced Q.P. everybody and their brother sold... it was actually an american made muffler designed for war time Jeeps sold as surplus that Berg used to sell in the early days... or so the story goes.
Anyway, THAT engine was crisp, responsive, and very quick revving... as a side note, that Berg muffler sounded so good when you were driving.. it would actually "buzz" a little out the pipe some. I liked it because the exhaust was somewhat quiet and you could really hear the 48's. The Ghia ran low 14's on race gas w/o the fan belt.

I have to say, I like healthy engines... anything from a built VW, V-8, hopped up Diesel with tons of turbo, or whatever.
Way back when Riverside Raceway was open I got to ride with a friend of mine out to the track to do a few laps and then back home... about 160 miles round trip plus track time... best part, the car is a 1964 Ferarri 250GT SWB California Spyder!!!! THIS car needed no radio! Top down, open air with the dual exhaust out back... just friggin sweet! This guy was somewhat cautious, but was not afraid to actually drive the car how it was ment to be driven... he still has that car, I'll have to go beg another ride soon

~DR.

[Peter]

glasspacks help too...

[alfie the monster]

Randy Jewell's old 1914 on ida's. It whined like fuck eith his straight cuts, awesome noise 

other engines? When we were at school my friends Mum had an Alfa GTAV6, and that sounded ace. Lots of country lanes around our way, and it sounded magic on one between 2 high stone walls 

Maserati Birdcage sounded awesome at Goodwood a few years ago. also loving the sound that Chip Foose's Lincoln V12 engines 32 makes

[streetvw]

some of my fave non-VW

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/myxMudtFX6g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/myxMudtFX6g</a>

and you can't beat the sound of one of these
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/XR7aF4hY9rU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/XR7aF4hY9rU</a>

aside from a hot vw motor that is 

[ian c]

... best part, the car is a 1964 Ferarri 250GT SWB California Spyder!!!! THIS car needed no radio! Top down, open air with the dual exhaust out back... just friggin sweet! This guy was somewhat cautious, but was not afraid to actually drive the car how it was ment to be driven... he still has that car, I'll have to go beg another ride soon

.

if i had the money to buy one of them , NOBODY would be getting a go   

[Dave Rosique]

... best part, the car is a 1964 Ferarri 250GT SWB California Spyder!!!! THIS car needed no radio! Top down, open air with the dual exhaust out back... just friggin sweet! This guy was somewhat cautious, but was not afraid to actually drive the car how it was ment to be driven... he still has that car, I'll have to go beg another ride soon

.

if i had the money to buy one of them , NOBODY would be getting a go   

He bought it from Circle Porsche in 1972 for $7000.00

...maybe we could offer him $10K

~DR.

[besserwisser]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vK-mIWHjypY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/vK-mIWHjypY</a>   

 My 1915 with superlight flywheel engle 120  early cb044 dual dellorto 40

[Jim Ratto]

... best part, the car is a 1964 Ferarri 250GT SWB California Spyder!!!! THIS car needed no radio! Top down, open air with the dual exhaust out back... just friggin sweet! This guy was somewhat cautious, but was not afraid to actually drive the car how it was ment to be driven... he still has that car, I'll have to go beg another ride soon

.

if i had the money to buy one of them , NOBODY would be getting a go   

He bought it from Circle Porsche in 1972 for $7000.00

...maybe we could offer him $10K

~DR.

    what'd Ferrari make...13 of those? Wow that must have been a FUN jaunt.

(jealous)

[Jim Ratto]

what's interesting, take any halfway-decent basic motor, with a good breathing head on it, crank in some overlap and add some 40mm+ Weber carbs on top, good equal-length tube exhaust, and they all sound pretty damn good.

go through you tube.... type in 365BB or Miura or 365 Daytona. Listen to them,....   they sound pretty familiar. Sure they have all those cylinder pulses, smoothing out the exhaust note, but the screaming cam drives, the "WHOMP" of the carbs, the fast throttle response....  not too far off from a good IDA fed VW

Some friends in years past had some Weber-ized stuff. One guy ran a Mini Cooper 1275 around with a single 45DOCE on it (that protruded into the cabin thru the firewall.... you peek under dash panel and there were two velocity stacks by your knees! Hope she don't backfire! ). That little Austin 1275 screamed through that carb... that car was a rocket. He ran a Caterham 7 too with Ford motor with Lotus head and twin DCOE's.... again, sounded awesome.

More recently, a friend of mine built a 2088cc BMW 4 cylinder for his 2002, with a Schrick cam (like 86b Web actually), ported head and twin 45mm DCOEs with 38mm vents. THAT car had a growl that would make your arm hair stand up. Real fast too, but apparently not fast enough....as he recently swapped it out for an E30 M3 DOHC motor. 

[Dave Rosique]

... best part, the car is a 1964 Ferarri 250GT SWB California Spyder!!!! THIS car needed no radio! Top down, open air with the dual exhaust out back... just friggin sweet! This guy was somewhat cautious, but was not afraid to actually drive the car how it was ment to be driven... he still has that car, I'll have to go beg another ride soon

.

if i had the money to buy one of them , NOBODY would be getting a go   

He bought it from Circle Porsche in 1972 for $7000.00

...maybe we could offer him $10K

~DR.

    what'd Ferrari make...13 of those? Wow that must have been a FUN jaunt.

(jealous)

Yes, good times.
Once a year the Ferrari and Pantera owners clubs would rent the track for a day... On the track, the Ferrari guys would mostly tip-toe around each other while the Pantera guys were out for blood

~DR.

[Sam K]

I love the sound of my 2332. It has IDA's, a 498 lift by 312 degree cam, straight cuts, Jeff Denham heads and 1 3/4 merged system with an A-1 built magnaflow muffler. However, a long, long time ago I had a 1600 with 1.25 rockers a 300 cfm Holley bug spray and an S&S header with low mount duals. That was the meanest sounding little engine. I was about 16 years old and I had no idea how to tune that stupid Holley. I couldn't find replacement jets or anybody here who knew how to do work on it either. It sounded like a Harley at idle and when you revved it up it was very deep and throaty. It also broke throttle cables on a weekly basis. I kept it on the car for a couple months before I gave up on it and bought some Kadrons but for those couple months, it was sweet. I think that Holley is still in the shed at my parents house.   

[Bewitched666]

and i like the smell of vp fuel,

[Lee.C]

82mm SPG 92mm DDS B&P and a set of Italian 48 IDA's 

[j-f]

82mm SPG 92mm DDS B&P and a set of Italian 48 IDA's 

Sounds like something to put in the "won't work" thread 

Just kidding Dude 

[lawrence]

To me, induction and exhaust are what make a motor sound killer. IDAs and nice, quiet maganaflow are my choice

Did any people use straight cut cam gears in the 70s and 80s. It seems like a recent trend. Just to change it up the next engine that I build will not have straight cuts. Does anyone know of a hot engine that does not use straight cuts? I bet it sounds better.

[BeetleBug]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vK-mIWHjypY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/vK-mIWHjypY</a>   

 My 1915 with superlight flywheel engle 120  early cb044 dual dellorto 40

Ahhh, refreshing, thanks for posting. How light is superlight if I may ask?

Best rgs
Kalle

[Jim Ratto]

To me, induction and exhaust are what make a motor sound killer. IDAs and nice, quiet maganaflow are my choice

Did any people use straight cut cam gears in the 70s and 80s. It seems like a recent trend. Just to change it up the next engine that I build will not have straight cuts. Does anyone know of a hot engine that does not use straight cuts? I bet it sounds better.

Really? To me the timing gears give the audio qualities of a hot VW it's "edge", especially at idle. BTW, Pete Statt's car had straight cuts in '86-87

[besserwisser]

I built that engine around -94. I do not remember the actuall wheight but looking at it now makes me wonder what I was thinking. It does rev like a motorcycle engine and gave 150hp on the Bug run free dyno 1995. If you want more hp than the motor can give I strongly recomend the bug run dyno. My personal belief is it makes around 135hp.

[Rasser]

Did anyone say tunnel and 7k rpm ?? 

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-5782694275058868534&hl=da&fs=true

[Cheesepanzer]

.... when you can hear the sound of the induction of a NA engine over the open stinger exhaust.  Old school drag cars of yester-year (super high compression, IDA's, big heavy-breathing heads, big cams). 

The Motion Sickness Ghia is prety awesome sounding too!

[ian c]

To me, induction and exhaust are what make a motor sound killer. IDAs and nice, quiet maganaflow are my choice

Did any people use straight cut cam gears in the 70s and 80s. It seems like a recent trend. Just to change it up the next engine that I build will not have straight cuts. Does anyone know of a hot engine that does not use straight cuts? I bet it sounds better.

Really? To me the timing gears give the audio qualities of a hot VW it's "edge", especially at idle. BTW, Pete Statt's car had straight cuts in '86-87

Bruce McDowell "magnums" where around a decade before that jim he sold the company early eighties but they carried on the magnum name . sarge was probobly on the sand with him at the time ....

lawrence , i think fit / lash of strait-cuts plays the biggest part in the noise ... some can be as quiet as stock .
if youre going "heavy" springs , its better to fit strait-cuts .....

heres an early set from 1981

[besserwisser]

Fantastic sound Rasser. That is also one of my favorite pastimes. We once drove to Bad Camberg in a split with an Abbarth exhaust and every tunnel and underpas was a blast. I rolled down the window and told my friend to hit it. Sounded like a world war two airplane.

[Rennsurfer]

Fantastic sound Rasser. That is also one of my favorite pastimes. We once drove to Bad Camberg in a split with an Abbarth exhaust and every tunnel and underpas was a blast. I rolled down the window and told my friend to hit it. Sounded like a world war two airplane.

Now THAT'S cool. Tunnels and air-cooled German cars have always sounded great together.

[OgCalLook]

Tunnels?
Short but sweet
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/FIJI_2hnKEw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/FIJI_2hnKEw</a>

[181]

can this qualify as mean?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CBdP5hlGwNU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/CBdP5hlGwNU</a>

BTW I strongly miss such topics as this one!

[modnrod]

1. Set comp at one tiny speck below melting lol.
2. Heads with REALLY fast air velocity.
3. Pick a cam with enough overlap to spit a bit at idle.
4. Throw the Webers in the bin and use a centremount.
5. Light flywheel.
6. Pick your favourite muffler.

My personal favourite is 4 glasspacks with no collector, and a Holley350 on an isolated centre. It sounds really impatient at idle, and the back of the car rocks at about 8-900rpm (rup, rup, rup, rup.......)  For some reason the little ones like under 1600 sound better when revving than the big 2L motors.

I'll let everyone else go fast with the power and speed of a tuned 4-1 and IDAs. Me? I'll stick with setting off car alarms down the street with the exhaust bass note. 

Oh, my contribution to my favourite sounding engine. Had a few of these set up like this, very old school..........
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HDoW8vyFjXk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/HDoW8vyFjXk</a>

[Erlend / bug66]

Sorry for the lousy format, but I love the sound of my own engine.

I'll miss the sharpness when I'm swapping to turbo..

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CMpfEtVRIqs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/CMpfEtVRIqs</a>