Engine and parts help... mild road engine project

[Nico86]

Guys I have the opportunity to buy some engine parts :

- 1x type 1 engine case, double oil regulation, machined for a 1776 kit and with machined camshaft location (sorry I don't know the name in english)
- 1x 69 mm rectified crankshaft
- 2x 040 cylinder heads, double ports, machined for a 1776 kit
- 1x 200mm flywheel
- 4x original VW rods

Everything are original made in germany VW parts, no cracks, checked and cleaned. Never used since it's been modified.

What do you think ? Is that a good start for begining an engine ?

 Thanks

[Nico86]

Up

I have infos about the case, it's a late german 1300 F case with the double oil regulators, controlled and machined by a pro for a 1776 kit.

[roland]

well depending on the price, if you plan to make a mild 1776 I guess it's a good start...

[Nico86]

That will be the first engine I'll build, I want something simple and reliable that I can drive when and where I want. I can get all this for about the price of a new un-controlled and un-machined stock AS41 case...

Well it's coming at home now.

[Ron Greiner]

the F case engine cases didn't have dual oil relief plungers, that didnt start till 1970
at least here in the states
and everthing since 1965 has had cam bearings

[Nico86]

Thanks for the infos Ron. 
The case does have dual oil relief plungers, so I guess it's from a late 1300 AB.

[Nico86]

I picked up the parts today, the case is from a F engine, but with dual oil relief (the seller said it's one of the very last made). I'll post a few pics.

[Nico86]

Pics and infos here http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,5591.210.html 

[yvre]

Go for it!

[Nico86]

Go for it!

 

I'm now collecting a lot of informations, I have a lot of things to ask !

[Ron Greiner]

this case has been reconiditioned by someone, possibly Vw ,you can tell because of the surface where the numbers are has been machined down and the numbers restamped in the case. Also it has case savers installed but it is not deep studed on topof  # 3 cylinder next to the flywheel

[Nico86]

this case has been reconiditioned by someone, possibly Vw ,you can tell because of the surface where the numbers are has been machined down and the numbers restamped in the case. Also it has case savers installed but it is not deep studed on topof  # 3 cylinder next to the flywheel

That explains why a F case has dual oil pressure reliefs. It seems it was reconditioned by VW because it has a VW logo (with an arrow around) next to the original VW logo, where the numbers have been restamped.

What is the deep studed on the #3 cylinder ? And case savers ? Thanks 

[Diederick/DVK]

case savers are the threads for the cylinder studs, it looks like an M8 helicoil has been inserted into the original M10 thread but i don't if that's what they are.
and deep studded means that the upper left of cylinder 3 lies deeper into the case and i believe they are thicker too M10 instead of M8.

this is the best picture to look at to see what ron meant
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also, the case has been spot faced. those are good things and they'll save you from those expenses, which leaves more money for parts 

so, what's the plan? i think you can build a nice 1776, IMO cams to look at would be w110 or w120. or how about a web 218?
what are you planning on for carburation? kadrons, IDF/DRLA, DCNF, IDA?

[Nico86]

case savers are the threads for the cylinder studs, it looks like an M8 helicoil has been inserted into the original M10 thread but i don't if that's what they are.
and deep studded means that the upper left of cylinder 3 lies deeper into the case and i believe they are thicker too M10 instead of M8.

Ok now I see what case savers are. Yes on the oil cooler side it has 8 case savers for the cylinders studs (seems to be M8), but look at the generator stand side, it has 3 holes without savers (red arrows), and I have this 2 types of studs for this. Does it means something wrong or it's ok ?

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

also, the case has been spot faced. those are good things and they'll save you from those expenses, which leaves more money for parts 

so, what's the plan? i think you can build a nice 1776, IMO cams to look at would be w110 or w120. or how about a web 218?
what are you planning on for carburation? kadrons, IDF/DRLA, DCNF, IDA?

Yes that's nice because all the machining has already been made. The project is to build a "mild" road engine. I want something reliable that I can drive when I want and where I want, I almost never drive on highways, most of the time on mountain/countryside roads. That's where I need a lot of advices and help from you guys to have something fun to drive, pleasant and reliable for my first engine build. 

[CHR!S/DVK]

case savers are the threads for the cylinder studs, it looks like an M8 helicoil has been inserted into the original M10 thread but i don't if that's what they are.
and deep studded means that the upper left of cylinder 3 lies deeper into the case and i believe they are thicker too M10 instead of M8.

for as far as i know, case savers are inserted in the inner face of both case halves where they meet.
they are like small dowel pins that fall into both case halves around the areas where the threads form the one case half pass through the other (do you understand?)
i thought that was just round the areas where the crankshaft bearings are inserted.

the prime function of case savers are just what their names say: they keep the case together and prevent the vertical movement of the two case halves that might be cause be high rpms of the crankshaft (especially when it's non-counterweighted).

died: remember John (CNC wizard) explained this when we picked up some of my engine stuff?

[CHR!S/DVK]

case savers are the threads for the cylinder studs, it looks like an M8 helicoil has been inserted into the original M10 thread but i don't if that's what they are.
and deep studded means that the upper left of cylinder 3 lies deeper into the case and i believe they are thicker too M10 instead of M8.

for as far as i know, case savers are inserted in the inner face of both case halves where they meet.
they are like small dowel pins that fall into both case halves around the areas where the threads form the one case half pass through the other (do you understand?)
i thought that was just round the areas where the crankshaft bearings are inserted.

the prime function of case savers are just what their names say: they keep the case together and prevent the vertical movement of the two case halves that might be cause be high rpms of the crankshaft (especially when it's non-counterweighted) and thus maintain even wear of the crankshaft bearings and the engine in its total.

died: remember John (CNC wizard) explained this when we picked up some of my engine stuff?


sorry, something went wrong and the message was sent twice..

[Diederick/DVK]

those are shuffle pins 

[Jim Ratto]

the case pictured above is not deep studded on # 3 and you have one type of head stud, just some of them took the case saver out when they were removed. They are not for keeping main bearing saddles aligned under severe use or high rpm. They were designed to keep head studs from bearing directly on magnesium case threads.

[Nico86]

Okaaaaaaayyy now I see guys ! 
And you see how much I need help with engines  (and technical language in english makes it harder for me  )

Just to know, why some case are deep studded on cylinder #3 ?

[Diederick/DVK]

if i'm correct, that's the part was the case gets the hottest and it's relatively thin. some cases have the recess behind the flywheel (just around the corner of that area) filled. deep studding it gives it a bit more flesh.
correct me if i'm wrong.

[fish]

You are correct its a form of strengthening the case at its most vulnerable place for cracks.

Nico, looks like a good case, chuck the case savers back in and build the motor, I would recommend a fk8 cam with 1.4 rockers nice port heads, don't over port keep good velocity for torque out of those mountain rd corners, twin 44 IDF and good merged exhaust, have fun building it.

[qubek]

My friend has just finished 1835 with stock heads, 8,9:1 compression ratio, Scat C35 and two 40 DRLAs taken from some dead Alfa-Romeo. Definitely stronger than stock Beetle, but still very.... "comfortable".  You know, in a way that somebody used to modern cars, and not a car enthusiast could drive it and he wouldn't complain. Except for the gearbox which just lacks fifth gear.

[Nico86]

Thanks for your infos guys, that's exactly what this thread is about. (And now I know that if one day I'd build a racing engine I'd get a deep studded case)

*CASE*
Magnesium VW F engine case
Dual oil pressure relief
Rectified crankshaft line
Machined for 90,5mm cylinders (96mm machining)

*HEADS*
Aluminium VW 040 cylinders heads
New spark plug location
Machined for 90,5mm cylinders (98mm machining)
Combustion chambers machined for 8.5 compression rate (2mm machining)

*CRANKSHAFT*
69mm rectified VW crankshaft

*RODS*
311 VW I-beams rods

About my project, I guess IDAs will be oversized, so that will be IDFs.
With the 96/98mm machining on the case/heads and the 69mm crank, the choice will be 90,5mm cylinders for a 1776. I read it's possible to get thinner cylinders for a 1835 with the 69mm crank, what do you think, too fragile or un-adapted to 040 heads ? (I'm not afraid by working on the ports, valves, oil cooler...)

[Nico86]

I received Keith book Aircooled VW Engine Intechange Manual today. I'll ask more questions after reading it. 

[Doktor]

Wich camshaft will you use ? 

[Nico86]

I have no idea ! 

[nicolas]

Wich camshaft will you use ? 

W110 

[Nico86]

Wich camshaft will you use ? 

W110 

It's quoted several times, when I finish reading my books, I'll get several engines combinations to discuss.

And about storing the parts until I start building the engine, the case and heads it's not a problem, but about the crank and rods, do I need to put some oil or WD40 on it ? (they are stored inside my home in good conditions).

[DKK Ted]

As long as there is not too much moisture around, WD-40 should be ok. I have had several parts stored in garage (mostly all my parts) and sprayed WD and never had a problem. You should be ok.

Ted

[Nico86]

Thanks Ted