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Author Topic: Engine and parts help... mild road engine project  (Read 156847 times)
Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« on: September 08, 2010, 20:00:05 pm »

Guys I have the opportunity to buy some engine parts :

- 1x type 1 engine case, double oil regulation, machined for a 1776 kit and with machined camshaft location (sorry I don't know the name in english)
- 1x 69 mm rectified crankshaft
- 2x 040 cylinder heads, double ports, machined for a 1776 kit
- 1x 200mm flywheel
- 4x original VW rods

Everything are original made in germany VW parts, no cracks, checked and cleaned. Never used since it's been modified.

What do you think ? Is that a good start for begining an engine ?

 Thanks Wink
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 15:50:11 pm by Nico86 » Logged

Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2010, 11:37:54 am »

Up Wink

I have infos about the case, it's a late german 1300 F case with the double oil regulators, controlled and machined by a pro for a 1776 kit.
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roland
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2010, 12:47:19 pm »

well depending on the price, if you plan to make a mild 1776 I guess it's a good start...
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Glitter don't make you faster.
Nico86
Hero Member
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Posts: 6354


Turnip engine.


« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2010, 13:10:25 pm »

That will be the first engine I'll build, I want something simple and reliable that I can drive when and where I want. I can get all this for about the price of a new un-controlled and un-machined stock AS41 case...

Well it's coming at home now. Grin
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 13:13:34 pm by Nico86 » Logged

Ron Greiner
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DKP II


« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2010, 01:35:58 am »

the F case engine cases didn't have dual oil relief plungers, that didnt start till 1970
at least here in the states
and everthing since 1965 has had cam bearings
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 01:38:50 am by Ron Greiner » Logged
Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2010, 01:48:15 am »

Thanks for the infos Ron.  Wink
The case does have dual oil relief plungers, so I guess it's from a late 1300 AB.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 21:04:20 pm by Nico86 » Logged

Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2010, 21:04:07 pm »

I picked up the parts today, the case is from a F engine, but with dual oil relief (the seller said it's one of the very last made). I'll post a few pics.
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Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 16:39:41 pm »

Pics and infos here http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,5591.210.html  Wink
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yvre
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 20:35:41 pm »

Go for it!
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Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 22:02:18 pm »

Go for it!

 Wink

I'm now collecting a lot of informations, I have a lot of things to ask ! Grin
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Ron Greiner
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2010, 23:51:40 pm »

this case has been reconiditioned by someone, possibly Vw ,you can tell because of the surface where the numbers are has been machined down and the numbers restamped in the case. Also it has case savers installed but it is not deep studed on topof  # 3 cylinder next to the flywheel
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Nico86
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Posts: 6354


Turnip engine.


« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2010, 23:58:34 pm »

this case has been reconiditioned by someone, possibly Vw ,you can tell because of the surface where the numbers are has been machined down and the numbers restamped in the case. Also it has case savers installed but it is not deep studed on topof  # 3 cylinder next to the flywheel

That explains why a F case has dual oil pressure reliefs. It seems it was reconditioned by VW because it has a VW logo (with an arrow around) next to the original VW logo, where the numbers have been restamped.

What is the deep studed on the #3 cylinder ? And case savers ? Thanks  Wink
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 00:02:23 am by Nico86 » Logged

Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2010, 09:22:22 am »

case savers are the threads for the cylinder studs, it looks like an M8 helicoil has been inserted into the original M10 thread but i don't if that's what they are.
and deep studded means that the upper left of cylinder 3 lies deeper into the case and i believe they are thicker too M10 instead of M8.

this is the best picture to look at to see what ron meant
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

also, the case has been spot faced. those are good things and they'll save you from those expenses, which leaves more money for parts  Wink

so, what's the plan? i think you can build a nice 1776, IMO cams to look at would be w110 or w120. or how about a web 218?
what are you planning on for carburation? kadrons, IDF/DRLA, DCNF, IDA?
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Diederick
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Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2010, 16:58:23 pm »

case savers are the threads for the cylinder studs, it looks like an M8 helicoil has been inserted into the original M10 thread but i don't if that's what they are.
and deep studded means that the upper left of cylinder 3 lies deeper into the case and i believe they are thicker too M10 instead of M8.

Ok now I see what case savers are. Yes on the oil cooler side it has 8 case savers for the cylinders studs (seems to be M8), but look at the generator stand side, it has 3 holes without savers (red arrows), and I have this 2 types of studs for this. Does it means something wrong or it's ok ?

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]




also, the case has been spot faced. those are good things and they'll save you from those expenses, which leaves more money for parts  Wink

so, what's the plan? i think you can build a nice 1776, IMO cams to look at would be w110 or w120. or how about a web 218?
what are you planning on for carburation? kadrons, IDF/DRLA, DCNF, IDA?

Yes that's nice because all the machining has already been made. The project is to build a "mild" road engine. I want something reliable that I can drive when I want and where I want, I almost never drive on highways, most of the time on mountain/countryside roads. That's where I need a lot of advices and help from you guys to have something fun to drive, pleasant and reliable for my first engine build.  Grin
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 17:12:06 pm by Nico86 » Logged

CHR!S/DVK
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2010, 17:26:27 pm »

case savers are the threads for the cylinder studs, it looks like an M8 helicoil has been inserted into the original M10 thread but i don't if that's what they are.
and deep studded means that the upper left of cylinder 3 lies deeper into the case and i believe they are thicker too M10 instead of M8.


for as far as i know, case savers are inserted in the inner face of both case halves where they meet.
they are like small dowel pins that fall into both case halves around the areas where the threads form the one case half pass through the other (do you understand?)
i thought that was just round the areas where the crankshaft bearings are inserted.

the prime function of case savers are just what their names say: they keep the case together and prevent the vertical movement of the two case halves that might be cause be high rpms of the crankshaft (especially when it's non-counterweighted).

died: remember John (CNC wizard) explained this when we picked up some of my engine stuff?
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CHR!S/DVK
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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2010, 17:28:01 pm »

case savers are the threads for the cylinder studs, it looks like an M8 helicoil has been inserted into the original M10 thread but i don't if that's what they are.
and deep studded means that the upper left of cylinder 3 lies deeper into the case and i believe they are thicker too M10 instead of M8.


for as far as i know, case savers are inserted in the inner face of both case halves where they meet.
they are like small dowel pins that fall into both case halves around the areas where the threads form the one case half pass through the other (do you understand?)
i thought that was just round the areas where the crankshaft bearings are inserted.

the prime function of case savers are just what their names say: they keep the case together and prevent the vertical movement of the two case halves that might be cause be high rpms of the crankshaft (especially when it's non-counterweighted) and thus maintain even wear of the crankshaft bearings and the engine in its total.

died: remember John (CNC wizard) explained this when we picked up some of my engine stuff?


sorry, something went wrong and the message was sent twice..
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 18:00:09 pm by CHR!S/DVK » Logged

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Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2010, 18:10:39 pm »

those are shuffle pins  Wink
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Diederick
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2010, 18:15:41 pm »

the case pictured above is not deep studded on # 3 and you have one type of head stud, just some of them took the case saver out when they were removed. They are not for keeping main bearing saddles aligned under severe use or high rpm. They were designed to keep head studs from bearing directly on magnesium case threads.
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Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2010, 20:19:27 pm »

Okaaaaaaayyy now I see guys !  Wink
And you see how much I need help with engines  Grin (and technical language in english makes it harder for me  Tongue)

Just to know, why some case are deep studded on cylinder #3 ?
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Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2010, 20:31:49 pm »

if i'm correct, that's the part was the case gets the hottest and it's relatively thin. some cases have the recess behind the flywheel (just around the corner of that area) filled. deep studding it gives it a bit more flesh.
correct me if i'm wrong.
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Diederick
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fish
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2010, 09:16:30 am »

You are correct its a form of strengthening the case at its most vulnerable place for cracks.

Nico, looks like a good case, chuck the case savers back in and build the motor, I would recommend a fk8 cam with 1.4 rockers nice port heads, don't over port keep good velocity for torque out of those mountain rd corners, twin 44 IDF and good merged exhaust, have fun building it.
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qubek
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« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2010, 09:48:31 am »

My friend has just finished 1835 with stock heads, 8,9:1 compression ratio, Scat C35 and two 40 DRLAs taken from some dead Alfa-Romeo. Definitely stronger than stock Beetle, but still very.... "comfortable".  You know, in a way that somebody used to modern cars, and not a car enthusiast could drive it and he wouldn't complain. Except for the gearbox which just lacks fifth gear.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 10:01:08 am by qubek » Logged

I have repro BRMs and I'm proud! :]
Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2010, 22:08:18 pm »

Thanks for your infos guys, that's exactly what this thread is about. Wink (And now I know that if one day I'd build a racing engine I'd get a deep studded case)




*CASE*
Magnesium VW F engine case
Dual oil pressure relief
Rectified crankshaft line
Machined for 90,5mm cylinders (96mm machining)

*HEADS*
Aluminium VW 040 cylinders heads
New spark plug location
Machined for 90,5mm cylinders (98mm machining)
Combustion chambers machined for 8.5 compression rate (2mm machining)

*CRANKSHAFT*
69mm rectified VW crankshaft

*RODS*
311 VW I-beams rods


About my project, I guess IDAs will be oversized, so that will be IDFs.
With the 96/98mm machining on the case/heads and the 69mm crank, the choice will be 90,5mm cylinders for a 1776. I read it's possible to get thinner cylinders for a 1835 with the 69mm crank, what do you think, too fragile or un-adapted to 040 heads ? (I'm not afraid by working on the ports, valves, oil cooler...)
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Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2010, 23:02:22 pm »

I received Keith book Aircooled VW Engine Intechange Manual today. I'll ask more questions after reading it.  Smiley
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Doktor
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« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2010, 23:36:56 pm »

Wich camshaft will you use ?  Wink
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dr.aircooled
Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2010, 23:38:19 pm »

I have no idea !  Cheesy Cheesy Grin
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nicolas
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« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2010, 20:48:18 pm »

Wich camshaft will you use ?  Wink

W110  Wink
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Nico86
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Posts: 6354


Turnip engine.


« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2010, 21:47:45 pm »

Wich camshaft will you use ?  Wink

W110  Wink

It's quoted several times, when I finish reading my books, I'll get several engines combinations to discuss. Wink

And about storing the parts until I start building the engine, the case and heads it's not a problem, but about the crank and rods, do I need to put some oil or WD40 on it ? (they are stored inside my home in good conditions).
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DKK Ted
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« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2010, 22:41:48 pm »

As long as there is not too much moisture around, WD-40 should be ok. I have had several parts stored in garage (mostly all my parts) and sprayed WD and never had a problem. You should be ok.

Ted
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Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2010, 22:56:30 pm »

Thanks Ted  Wink
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