How much money to run 10s in a street car?now with part2, The evolution to turbo

[tikimadness]

So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course.

Michael

[BeetleBug]

So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course.

Michael

Unless you're driving with your brakes on AND your car weight the same as a Volvo station wagon you should be deep into the 10's.

[tikimadness]

So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course.

Michael

Unless you're driving with your brakes on AND your car weight the same as a Volvo station wagon you should be deep into the 10's.

I really should weigh it

Michael

[Airspeed]

So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course.

Michael

Unless you're driving with your brakes on AND your car weight the same as a Volvo station wagon you should be deep into the 10's.

I think I will be very silent now and craw away with tail between legs...(although the Volvo weight does somewhat ring a bell  )

[richie]

So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course.

Michael

Micheal I dont think you car weighed as much as dannys when I did the calcs for that,heres my guesstimate

385hp@1600lbs=9.36@143mph seriously that whats the most accurate 1/4 mile calc I know makes it

The calc for old cab when I ran the 9.23 says i should have run 9.14 and you never have a perfect run so it is pretty close

You might want to think about some race clothing amongst other things

cheers richie

[richie]

So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course.

Michael

Unless you're driving with your brakes on AND your car weight the same as a Volvo station wagon you should be deep into the 10's.

I think I will be very silent now and craw away with tail between legs...(although the Volvo weight does somewhat ring a bell  )

You are excused for having all that extra stuff needed to go round bends

What does it weigh? and how much hp? and how many gear changes? do you need 5th gear on the strip?

cheers richie

[tikimadness]

So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course.

Michael

Micheal I dont think you car weighed as much as dannys when I did the calcs for that,heres my guesstimate

385hp@1600lbs=9.36@143mph seriously that whats the most accurate 1/4 mile calc I know makes it

The calc for old cab when I ran the 9.23 says i should have run 9.14 and you never have a perfect run so it is pretty close

You might want to think about some race clothing amongst other things

cheers richie

That's way faster then I thought and I'm trying to get it faster

Yes clothes is the next thing on my list. It's on the fifth page I think

Michael

[richie]

10.88/123mph@2150lbs=335hp
335hp@1800lbs=10.20@131mph

cheers richie

[Shane Noone]

my car ran 11.8 n/a,  30 shot of nitrous 11.45 so it does make massive improvements for a small amount of money cant wait to see what another 30 hp of gas does this weekend

11.8@1672lbs = 201hp
11.45@1672lbs=220hp

so 250hp=10.97@122.08mph

Realistically you will proberly need another 15hp to actually see the 10s,but your gearbox changes may make a difference as well

Shane you got weight and hp for your car? I will see what the magic ball says you need to add for 10s

cheers richie

Yeah sorry Richie, I was being a bit lazy and didn't read from the start of the thread ( been away all week and only back online today   )

Danny. I know mate , I'm only teasing  

Ok as for my bugs weight,to be honest I have no idea !! What does an all steel and glass 57 oval weigh from the factory ? Then remove stock interior and shove in one of Jim's Cro-moly chassis tied cages 6 pointer with ally panelling and single bucket seat and harness etc.....I'm guessing weight around 800-850 kgs ? I weight 80 kgs.

The motor in street trim made 212 bhp the other week and 177 ft/lbs on rolling road.  Best ET to date is 12.57 but the other week only made 12.72 and has run several 12.6's.

I keep meaning to get over to a public weighbridge but never seem to get time  

So what does the magic formula say.......

Cheers, Shane.

[dannyboy]

my car ran 11.8 n/a,  30 shot of nitrous 11.45 so it does make massive improvements for a small amount of money cant wait to see what another 30 hp of gas does this weekend

11.8@1672lbs = 201hp
11.45@1672lbs=220hp

so 250hp=10.97@122.08mph

Realistically you will proberly need another 15hp to actually see the 10s,but your gearbox changes may make a difference as well

Shane you got weight and hp for your car? I will see what the magic ball says you need to add for 10s

cheers richie

i reckon my engine makes about 200-205 with the belt off n/a so with a 60 shot that should put me in the tens then ?

[richie]

my car ran 11.8 n/a,  30 shot of nitrous 11.45 so it does make massive improvements for a small amount of money cant wait to see what another 30 hp of gas does this weekend

11.8@1672lbs = 201hp
11.45@1672lbs=220hp

so 250hp=10.97@122.08mph

Realistically you will proberly need another 15hp to actually see the 10s,but your gearbox changes may make a difference as well

Shane you got weight and hp for your car? I will see what the magic ball says you need to add for 10s

cheers richie

i reckon my engine makes about 200-205 with the belt off n/a so with a 60 shot that should put me in the tens then ?

those calcs are for your engine,thats what it is making at the moment,are what its making use of,I think you will be really close but need a little more

[dannyboy]

thats fine i think they make bigger jets 

[Shane Noone]

Ok as for my bugs weight,to be honest I have no idea !! What does an all steel and glass 57 oval weigh from the factory ? Then remove stock interior and shove in one of Jim's Cro-moly chassis tied cages 6 pointer with ally panelling and single bucket seat and harness etc.....I'm guessing weight around 800-850 kgs ? I weight 83 kgs.

The motor in street trim made 212 bhp the other week and 177 ft/lbs on rolling road.  Best ET to date is 12.57 but the other week only made 12.72 and has run several 12.6's.

I keep meaning to get over to a public weighbridge but never seem to get time 

So what does the magic formula say.......

Cheers, Shane.

[dannyboy]

i put all the info for your car into calculator shane and it said somthing about fan belt and nitrous


 

[Jesse/DVK]

So Beetlebug what does it take to get such 60ft times? Apart from being a good driver 

Apart from luck you need a good strip, two good tires, the correct tire pressure, just enough clutch, a well planed rear suspension and enough hp.

BB

Could you tell me more about the rear suspension? What mods make it take off and go somewhere? Traction bar, midmount?

[richie]

Ok as for my bugs weight,to be honest I have no idea !! What does an all steel and glass 57 oval weigh from the factory ? Then remove stock interior and shove in one of Jim's Cro-moly chassis tied cages 6 pointer with ally panelling and single bucket seat and harness etc.....I'm guessing weight around 800-850 kgs ? I weight 83 kgs.

The motor in street trim made 212 bhp the other week and 177 ft/lbs on rolling road.  Best ET to date is 12.57 but the other week only made 12.72 and has run several 12.6's.

I keep meaning to get over to a public weighbridge but never seem to get time 

So what does the magic formula say.......

Cheers, Shane.

I have corner weight scales I can bring to the track next time we are both there Shane and see what it weighs race ready if you want? for now lets say 1900lbs,proberly not that heavy but gives us a starting point
212hp @1900lbs=12.10@110.74mph  how does that mph compare? as that the best indication of hp

cheers richie

[richie]

Also Shane going on that weight, a 60shot of nitrous added to you car like danny is planning on using this weekend drops it to 11.13@120mph and adding 12hp for taking off the belt is 10.98@122.07

cheers richie

[Shane Noone]

Ok as for my bugs weight,to be honest I have no idea !! What does an all steel and glass 57 oval weigh from the factory ? Then remove stock interior and shove in one of Jim's Cro-moly chassis tied cages 6 pointer with ally panelling and single bucket seat and harness etc.....I'm guessing weight around 800-850 kgs ? I weight 83 kgs.

The motor in street trim made 212 bhp the other week and 177 ft/lbs on rolling road.  Best ET to date is 12.57 but the other week only made 12.72 and has run several 12.6's.

I keep meaning to get over to a public weighbridge but never seem to get time 

So what does the magic formula say.......

Cheers, Shane.

I have corner weight scales I can bring to the track next time we are both there Shane and see what it weighs race ready if you want? for now lets say 1900lbs,proberly not that heavy but gives us a starting point
212hp @1900lbs=12.10@110.74mph  how does that mph compare? as that the best indication of hp

cheers richie

That's a good idea about the scales. My terminal is 105 / 106 mph with a 12.57  - 12.61 ET

[BeetleBug]

So Beetlebug what does it take to get such 60ft times? Apart from being a good driver 

Apart from luck you need a good strip, two good tires, the correct tire pressure, just enough clutch, a well planed rear suspension and enough hp.

BB

Could you tell me more about the rear suspension? What mods make it take off and go somewhere? Traction bar, midmount?

First off, I'm using the Moroso power "calculator" and I trust it 100%. If I'm not close (and I'm not) them something is wrong and I know exactly what it is.

I think everyone can agree that the by far most important thing when dragracing is the start. Get it wrong and you might as well cruise to the finish line. This is where a experienced driver like Richie have a BIG advantage, he knows the tricks to get a car to leave the lights in a effective way even though he spent years lifting the front wheels 

There are many roads to a good rear suspension and I believe that there is no definitive answer. What works on one car might not work on your car. Trond D showed us all that a stock oval suspension with adjustable shocks and a solid mounted gearbox managed a 1.47 60ft at last year SCC. This was with a 300+ hp turbo engine, KEP 3 and a black magic. You can see that launch in his avatar picture. Tires was MH DOT's.

[richie]

Ok as for my bugs weight,to be honest I have no idea !! What does an all steel and glass 57 oval weigh from the factory ? Then remove stock interior and shove in one of Jim's Cro-moly chassis tied cages 6 pointer with ally panelling and single bucket seat and harness etc.....I'm guessing weight around 800-850 kgs ? I weight 83 kgs.

The motor in street trim made 212 bhp the other week and 177 ft/lbs on rolling road.  Best ET to date is 12.57 but the other week only made 12.72 and has run several 12.6's.

I keep meaning to get over to a public weighbridge but never seem to get time 

So what does the magic formula say.......

Cheers, Shane.

I have corner weight scales I can bring to the track next time we are both there Shane and see what it weighs race ready if you want? for now lets say 1900lbs,proberly not that heavy but gives us a starting point
212hp @1900lbs=12.10@110.74mph  how does that mph compare? as that the best indication of hp

cheers richie

That's a good idea about the scales. My terminal is 105 / 106 mph with a 12.57  - 12.61 ET

Shane

what 4th gear ratio do you have? with a 3.88 ring and pinion I pressume? and what size rear tyres? we can figure out mph over the finish line and see how far of the gear ratio is

cheers richie

[richie]

I think everyone can agree that the by far most important thing when dragracing is the start. Get it wrong and you might as well cruise to the finish line. This is where a experienced driver like Richie have a BIG advantage, he knows the tricks to get a car to leave the lights in a effective way even though he spent years lifting the front wheels

Seat time is proberly worth a whole second,seriously from the 1st pass with a new combination to getting the best from that same combination there is a second to be gained at least

This is where the sreet car is such an advantage,just driving the car regularly gets you more familiar with everything,and lets be honest everyone does the occasional practice launch on a quiet street[or not so quiet sometimes] 

And yes lots of seat time gives you the infomation to set the car up better,what rpm does it like on launch?how much clutch grip is needed?what setting for the shocks,front and rear,tyre pressure is so overlooked as well.

Also wheelies help,well in a round about sort of way,its easier to calm down the launch with less rpm or more tyre pressure than it is to get a car to grip that spins the tyres.

 There are many roads to a good rear suspension and I believe that there is no definitive answer. What works on one car might not work on your car. Trond D showed us all that a stock oval suspension with adjustable shocks and a solid mounted gearbox managed a 1.47 60ft at last year SCC. This was with a 300+ hp turbo engine, KEP 3 and a black magic. You can see that launch in his avatar picture. Tires was MH DOT's.


[/quote

That there is very impressive,will it do it regularly?who knows,hopefully Trond will and he will get faster   His car seems to have a very simple set up,but it works,but it wouldnt work on a N/A car[to much clutch,it would just bog]

My suspension was so simple,its easy to overthink or overspend it   1st gear ratio is also super important,and often overlooked


cheers richie

[Shane Noone]

Shane

what 4th gear ratio do you have? with a 3.88 ring and pinion I pressume? and what size rear tyres? we can figure out mph over the finish line and see how far of the gear ratio is

cheers richie

Richie, my final drive is 4.12 and my 4th gear is a but of a mystery as Pete couldn't recall what he fitted. I asked for a 1.21 but I'm not sure it's that close. Doesn't feel that close and I have run 1.58 / 1.21 / 4.12 previously.

My tyres are MH DOT's 215 / 60

Cheers

Shane.

[richie]

I just noticed my viewing Shanes reply took the view total to 2276,so thats what the engine size will be

[Trond Dahl]

I did do a few more good 60fts but people only seem to notice the one that brought me into a high 10 :-) I would need more of them to call it consistent though.
It would be nice to repeat this year @ SCC but going from a thin to a proper cage has added a lot of weight. So we will see what happens.
The reason for the heavy clutch is actually due to not slipping on the dynapack which stage 2 did...
After that I just ran it as it was, but there is no doubt that a heavy black magic and stage3 is far too much clutch...

[mrmut]

11.8@1672lbs = 201hp
11.45@1672lbs=220hp

so 250hp=10.97@122.08mph

Realistically you will proberly need another 15hp to actually see the 10s,but your gearbox changes may make a difference as well

Shane you got weight and hp for your car? I will see what the magic ball says you need to add for 10s

cheers richie

I have a 204 HP engine, power realizes the 5000rpm max 6500 rpm Weight 750kg or 1653lbs my 1/4mile time was 12.2 s with stock gearbox IRS with 205/65/15 tires.
I think if the same HP to achieve at higher rpm 7000 or 7500 that the time of 1/4mile will lessen about 1.5 s

[richie]

So heres where I am with this idea

Looking at a car this weekend,if its as described then it will be perfect

Cage,got a good price for a pre bent kit,and am waiting to see what it costs to fit with me helping

Gearbox,got all the details and ratios worked out,got a single side cover irs swap meet box as a donor

Engine specs less heads all worked out,will be scanning the for sale adds for a bargain on the heads,then be able to be sure on the valvetrain, found a deal on a welded stroker crank with flywheel, a good used case already opened up for 94s and stroke clearanced so that will be the basis of it

Been talking to a nitrous company about what is best for this as its been 10 years since I last was up to date with the latest and greatest gizmos and things have moved on since then
and no one does a aircooled vw kit that I know of,last time I kind of put it together myself

Lots left to work out & find,but a good start


cheers richie

[richie]

Richie, my final drive is 4.12 and my 4th gear is a but of a mystery as Pete couldn't recall what he fitted. I asked for a 1.21 but I'm not sure it's that close. Doesn't feel that close and I have run 1.58 / 1.21 / 4.12 previously.

My tyres are MH DOT's 215 / 60

Cheers

Shane.

Wow thats short,if it has that 4th in it then it tops out at 111mph@7000rpm,what rpm do you turn? I would be running a 3.88 with that at least

[richie]

I did do a few more good 60fts but people only seem to notice the one that brought me into a high 10 :-) I would need more of them to call it consistent though.
It would be nice to repeat this year @ SCC but going from a thin to a proper cage has added a lot of weight. So we will see what happens.
The reason for the heavy clutch is actually due to not slipping on the dynapack which stage 2 did...
After that I just ran it as it was, but there is no doubt that a heavy black magic and stage3 is far too much clutch...

Nice so a little tuning and it could 60ft around there regularly,how much weight do you think the cage added? did you tie it to the frame forks? it might actually help the 60fts by making the car stiffer and getting the suspension working better

cheers richie

[tikimadness]

Looks like you got yourself a lot of work. Curious on how you are going to make it go straight.I reckon you rely on the vw basic set up uprated with some good shocks?

Michael

[Shane Noone]

Richie, my final drive is 4.12 and my 4th gear is a but of a mystery as Pete couldn't recall what he fitted. I asked for a 1.21 but I'm not sure it's that close. Doesn't feel that close and I have run 1.58 / 1.21 / 4.12 previously.

My tyres are MH DOT's 215 / 60

Cheers

Shane.

Wow thats short,if it has that 4th in it then it tops out at 111mph@7000rpm,what rpm do you turn? I would be running a 3.88 with that at least

Pretty sure cross the line around 6500 - will try and observe this weekend up the pod. If your going let me know and bring the scales 

Cheers Shane.